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05/27/1992 MAAS BROTHERS TASK FORCE May 27, 1992 Members present: Ed Mazur, Chairperson Jim Graham, Vice-Chairperson (arrived 3:06 p.m.) John B. Johnson Hal Ebersole Stephen Saliga Wray Register Bob Bickerstaffe Phoebe Moss David Little Gregory Jewell (arrived 3:19 p.m.) Debra Weible (arrived 3:19 p.m.) Joshua Magidson (arrived 3:24 p.m.) Jackie Tobin (arrived 3:56 p.m.) Members Absent: Robert Kennedy Nancy Simmons Also Present: Cynthia E. Goudeau, City Clerk The meeting was called to order at 3:04 p.m. at the Clearwater East Library. The Chairman called the meeting to order and stated over the weekend he had prepared a draft report which had blanks in areas where the recommendations would be inserted. He stated Appendix #1 would be the financial information provided to the Task Force by staff and Appendix #2 would be all the memos that have been submitted by Task Force members. He requested the members review this prior to tomorrow's meeting in order to finalize the report. He stated he felt at the last meeting most motions centered around one concept, however, some were too nebulous and others too detailed. He stated he would like the Task Force to consider making a motion that would get the primary point across and then make secondary motions to fill in details. Member Bickerstaffe requested to make a presentation. He stated his concept would provide all things asked for by the citizens, open space, income, a restaurant, shops, a civic center, improvement of the tax base and support of tourism. His recommendation is to return the property to City ownership in order to protect open space but to leave the current building in place for now and allow a restaurant and shops to occupy a portion of the space with the top floor being used as a civic center and auditorium and City employees being housed on the lowest floor during the implementation of the Downtown Plan and the site also be used to support tourism by providing a tram station for public transportation. He complimented the City Manager for his Downtown plan stating that while everyone does not agree with all aspects, it is at least taking some direction. He felt that by working together, downtown could be redeveloped. He felt that after the Downtown Plan is in place, a more permanent resolution of the use of the Maas Brothers site could then be sought. Member Bickerstaffe moved that the Maas Brothers Task Force recommend the City Commission return the Maas Brothers property to City ownership, leave the current building in place and lease it or a portion of it for commercial uses requested by the people, rent space on the roof to private enterprise to build a first class restaurant, rent space on the Osceola level to operators of shops and entertainment facilities, use the top floor for a badly needed civic center, auditorium and tourist conference center with a minimum capacity of 2,000, accommodate City staff from the City Hall Annex on the first floor, if needed, during the implementation of the Downtown Plan and provide a tram station for "fun" public transportation to and from Clearwater Beach. The motion was duly seconded. A question was raised regarding a statement Mr. Bickerstaffe had made during his presentation that it would cost as much to tear down the building as to refurbish it. Mr. Bickerstaffe indicated he may have been a little off on those figures but his basic concern is to use the current building to obtain a return on the City's investment and then later the property could be used for whatever purpose downtown development dictates. Discussion ensued regarding the need to keep the current building and whether or not tenants could be found. Concerns were also expressed regarding whether or not the City would manage the building, how the building would be leased or sub-leased and regarding City vehicles being parked on the property. It was also stated that it was felt the Task Force's mission was to establish the optimum use for the property in the long term. A concern was expressed that this would not bring people to the area as it offered nothing that was not already in the area. Upon the vote being taken: Members Bickerstaffe and Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Weible, Little, Register, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Ebersole, Moss and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion failed. A question was raised regarding whether or not letters that had been submitted by absent Task Force members could be used as votes and it was indicated this was not allowed. Member Graham moved that the building be torn down and something be done with the site other than a park. The motion was duly seconded. Discussion ensued regarding whether or not the Task Force should be suggesting the building be torn down or whether that should be left to what is determined to be done with the property. Concerns were expressed that the motion was not specific enough as to what should be done with the property if the building is razed. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Graham and Jewell voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Moss, Ebersole, Saliga and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion failed. Discussion ensued regarding making a motion to enter negotiations with the Art Center, requiring a restaurant, auditorium, etc. Concerns were expressed that the Task Force was getting bogged down in details. Concerns were also expressed regarding the City needing to maintain control of the property. Member Register moved that the City Commission enter into negotiations with the Florida Gulf coast Art Center for their proposal to use the 3.8 acre Maas Brothers property. The motion was duly seconded. In response to a question, it was indicated the motion was limited to only addressing the 3.8 acre Maas Brothers site. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Little, Register, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Tobin, Moss, Ebersole and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Bickerstaffe and Saliga voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Jewell moved that in addition to the Art Center on the 3.8 acres, that the remainder of the bluff be opened up for consideration of commercial development. The motion was duly seconded. It was requested that motions regarding the remainder of the bluff be held until such time as the Maas Brothers site has been fully addressed. Mr. Jewell withdrew his motion and the seconder withdrew their second. Member Magidson moved that regarding the 3.8 acre Maas Brothers site, if negotiations with the Florida Gulf coast Art Center do not work out, the land be retained as a park and that as a part of the negotiations with the Art Center, the City maintain control of the property and that in the negotiations the property can only be used by the Florida Gulf coast Art Center as an art center and that the remainder of the property, other than that needed for the footprint of the Art Center building, would be parkland. The motion was duly seconded. A question was raised regarding whether or not any development would be allowed in a park. Mr. Magidson stated his motion did not preclude buildings in the park that would be open for public use. Concerns were expressed regarding "handcuffing" the City Commission in its negotiations with the Art Center. Mr. Magidson indicated his motion was a back up motion in case negotiations with the Art Center fail. Upon the vote being taken: Members Magidson, Bickerstaffe and Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Weible, Register, Mazur, Graham, Ebersole, Tobin, Moss, Jewell, Little and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion failed. Discussion ensued regarding whether or not the Task Force wished to make additional motions regarding the use of the 3.8 acre site. Member Little moved that whatever property not needed by the Florida Gulf coast Art Center, west of their facility, be made into parkland. The motion was duly seconded. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Little, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Tobin, Moss, Register and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Bickerstaffe, Ebersole, Saliga and Jewell voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Weible moved that if negotiations with the Art Center fall through, the site be considered for redevelopment by the City. The motion was duly seconded. Concerns were expressed regarding the Coachman donation having been made in order to make this area parkland. Member Weible amended her motion to read, if negotiations with the Art Center fall through, the top of the bluff, above the 28 foot line, be considered for redevelopment by the City with the lower portion, below the 28 foot line, to be used as parkland. The seconder accepted the amendment. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Moss and Tobin voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Johnson, Saliga and Ebersole voted "Nay". Motion failed. Concerns were expressed that the issue of City control had not been addressed. A concern was expressed that a member's motion submitted in a letter had not been recognized. It was indicated that while letters had been submitted, that is not the manner in which motions are made. The Chairman indicated that currently the Task Force is concentrating on the primary recommendation and any secondary motions regarding things that should be considered in that recommendation. Once that is finished, motions regarding other portions of the bluff and how to reach the recommendation will be considered. Member Johnson moved that any cost of demolition of the building be borne by the Florida Gulf coast Art Center. The motion was duly seconded. Concerns were expressed again regarding tying the hands of the City in the negotiations. It was indicated the City will not be bound by these suggestions, rather these are subjects for them to consider during negotiations. Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Jewell and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Weible and Saliga voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Johnson moved that title or control of the land remain with the City. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Member Little moved that in the negotiations that the City and the Arts Center consider providing a civic room/auditorium of a minimum size that would hold 500 people in a banquet setting. The motion was duly seconded. Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Mazur, Graham, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Jewell, Weible and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Bickerstaffe, Magidson and Saliga voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Little moved that it be considered that a restaurant be provided on site with a waterfront vista of a sufficient size to qualify them to acquire a beer and wine license and this restaurant be open to the public. The motion was duly seconded. Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Mazur, Weible, Tobin, Graham, Jewell, Moss and Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Magidson, Ebersole and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Little moved that the City and the Art Center consider providing a transportation hub on site. The motion was duly seconded. A concern was expressed regarding whether or not this transportation hub would be the responsibility of the Art Center. It was indicated it is not intended that this be the responsibility of the Art Center and that the location, whether above or below the bluff, would be subject to discussion. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Moss and Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Magidson, Ebersole, Tobin and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Bickerstaffe moved that if the City and the Art Center do not enter into an agreement that the existing building be put to a productive interim use. The motion was duly seconded. Concerns were expressed that this would set a precedent to provide for commercial development on the site and it was stated some would like to see public use of the property. The seconder withdrew his second. The motion was again duly seconded. Member Tobin moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken on the motion to put the existing building to productive use: Members Bickerstaffe and Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Magidson, Mazur, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Weible, Johnson, Graham and Jewell voted "Nay". Motion failed. Member Jewell moved that if the City rejects an agreement with the Art Center that the building be razed and left as open space for no longer than five years. The motion was duly seconded. Concern was expressed that this would defeat the purpose of having a Task Force. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Graham and Jewell voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Saliga and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion failed. Member Magidson moved that if negotiations with the Art Center fall through, the building be torn down and put to public use and/or parkland. The motion was duly seconded. Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Saliga and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Weible, Mazur, Graham and Jewell voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Register moved there be an opening of the vista on the south side of the building in accordance with City Code. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Member Little moved that in the negotiations there be a provision for a giftshop of a minimum size of 2,000 square feet. The motion was duly seconded. Concerns were expressed regarding the Task Force getting into too much detail. Member Tobin moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken regarding the giftshop: Members Weible and Little voted "Aye"; Members Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Saliga, Jewell and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion failed. A statement was made that all museums have giftshops as they need and desire the revenue. The Chairman asked if there were any other proposals for use of the 3.8 acres. There was no further discussion on that topic. The Chairman indicated the Task Force could now consider motions regarding other issues. Member Saliga moved that the three basic proposals, razing the building and making it into a park, razing the building and redeveloping the property and use of the existing structure, along with all information regarding associated costs to the taxpayers for each option be presented as a referendum to the Clearwater voters. The motion was duly seconded. Concerns were expressed regarding this circumventing the work done by the Task Force. Member Graham moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken regarding submitting the three options to a referendum: Member Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Moss, Tobin, Jewell, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Johnson, Ebersole and Weible voted "Nay". Motion failed. Member Graham moved to allow the southeast corner of the site to be used by the City for access between Osceola and Cleveland Street to include closing Drew Street on the west side of the site and the expansion of Coachman Park. The motion was duly seconded. A question was raised regarding the advantage of closing Drew Street and it was indicated the public would not have to cross a street in order to get to the water and it would enhance the safety of children using the park. Concerns were expressed regarding the impact on traffic if this is done. Mr. Ebersole left the meeting at this time. Member Weible moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken regarding using the southeast corner for access between Osceola and Cleveland and closing Drew Street: Members Weible, Little, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Moss, Tobin, Register and Jewell voted "Aye"; Members Johnson and Saliga voted "Nay". Motion carried. The Chairman indicated he would include the votes on the motions in the report and it was requested the votes from the last meeting (5/14) also be included in that report. The Chairman presented the minutes of the May 14, 1992, Task Force meeting. Member Graham moved to approve the minutes as submitted. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. The meeting recessed from 5:22 p.m. to 5:27 p.m. The Chairman asked if there was any further discussion. Member Jewell moved that in the event the City accepts the 3.8 acre site for use by the Art Center that the remaining portion of the bluff, including the Library and Chamber sites, be put up for redevelopment by private enterprise and the remaining portion of Coachman Park be extended to the waterfront. The motion was duly seconded. A concern was expressed that there were two issues in the motion. Mr. Jewell amended his motion to read "that in the event the City Commission accepts the 3.8 acres for use by the Arts Center, the remaining portion of the bluff, including the Library and Chamber sites, be put up for redevelopment by private enterprise". The seconder accepted the amendment. Concerns were expressed that the Library should remain where it is. Concerns were expressed that the bluff area was not really that large and in order for some development to take place as much of it needed to be made available as possible. Concern was expressed regarding the donation of the land on which the Library is located. Member Graham moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken regarding opening the bluff to commercial development: Members Weible, Register, Mazur, Graham, Jewell and Moss voted "Aye"; Members Little, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Saliga, Tobin and Johnson voted "Nay". Tie vote, motion failed. Member Jewell moved that Drew Street be closed south of the turn basin or cul-de-sac at the Ferry Docks and Coachman Park be extended to the water. The motion was duly seconded. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Register, Magidson, Graham, Jewell, Moss, Little, Bickerstaffe, Mazur, Tobin and Johnson voted "Aye"; Member Saliga voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Little moved that the City enter into negotiations to purchase the Chamber property and provide the Chamber with two acres at the East End project at a rental rate of a dollar a year. The motion was duly seconded. Concerns were expressed that this was getting outside the area of the Task Force. Concerns were also expressed regarding the motion being too detailed. Mr. Little amended his motion to read "that the City enter into negotiations with the Chamber of Commerce to acquire their property". The seconder accepted the amendment. A question was raised regarding whether or not the Chamber would be willing to sell the property. Mr. Pete Woodham, Executive Director of the Chamber, was present and indicated they were willing to consider sale of their property in order to help enhance development of the bluff. Questions were raised regarding what price would be considered. Member Magidson moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken regarding entering into negotiations with the Chamber: Members Weible, Little, Register, Mazur and Moss voted "Aye"; Members Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Graham, Jewell, Saliga, Johnson and Tobin voted "Nay". Motion failed. A question was raised regarding whether or not the Task Force should recommend that if negotiations fall through with the Art Center that the Chamber and the Art Center enter into negotiations. It was indicated this was outside of the scope of the Task Force. The Chairman indicated there were other items to be considered. Those are: how to do the report, whether or not the property should stay in the ownership of the Community Redevelopment Agency (CRA) and if the recommendation should go to referendum. Member Jewell moved that the property stay within the ownership of the CRA. The motion was duly seconded. Questions were raised regarding the benefits of the property staying with the CRA. It was indicated there are restrictions in the Charter that do not bind the CRA. Concerns were expressed that if the property stayed with the CRA, a referendum would not be required. Member Weible moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Register, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Moss and Tobin voted "Aye"; Members Little, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Saliga and Johnson voted "Nay". Motion carried. Member Magidson moved that whatever recommendation is accepted by the CRA and/or City Commission that it be the subject of a referendum. The motion was duly seconded. Member Weible moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Saliga and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Weible, Register, Moss and Tobin voted "Nay". Motion carried. The Chairman questioned how to report to the City Commission and indicated he would like to discuss it with them at the worksession of June 1st and at their meeting of June 4th. Member Magidson moved to recognize the hard work and effort put into the Task Force by the Chairman and that he be the spokesperson before the CRA. The motion was duly seconded. It was stated that people wishing to provide additional information should submit it to the Chairman in writing. Upon the vote being taken: the motion carried unanimously. The Chairman requested the Task Force review the proposed format for the Final Report before the meeting tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned at 6:05 p.m.