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01/11/2000FIRE TASK FORCE MEETING CITY OF CLEARWATER January 11, 2000 Present: Cyndie Goudeau Acting Chair/City Clerk (Non-voting) Joe Calio Task Force Member Joe Evich Task Force Member – arrived 3:06 p.m. Rowland Herald Task Force Member Russ Kimball Task Force Member George Krause Task Force Member John Lee Task Force Member Scott Nall Task Force Member Bill Schwob Task Force Member Duke Tieman Task Force Member William Sherman Task Force Member Doug Williams Task Force Member Jean Stuart Task Force Alternate Absent: Bill Horne Chair (Non-voting) Also Present: John Carassas Assistant City Attorney – arrived 3:30 p.m. Margie Simmons Finance Director Tina Wilson Budget Director Sue Diana Assistant City Clerk Brenda Moses Board Reporter The Acting Chair called the meeting to order at 3:00 p.m. at City Hall. To provide continuity for research, items are in agenda order although not necessarily discussed in that order. Finance Director Margie Simmons noted the figures distributed at the January 4, 2000 financial presentation were correct. She reviewed the recap of proposed expenditures, explained each option and distributed Options 6 and 6A. She said these are staff’s best estimates. Option 6 proposes that all land, buildings, and vehicles are paid from Penny for Pinellas funds, the general fund would remain the same as the current year, and the remainder of funds would come from a fire fee. Option 6a proposes that all land, buildings, and vehicles are paid from Penny for Pinellas funds and the rest from ad valorem taxes. In response to a question, it was indicated no land costs were included in the figures. Ms. Simmons presented information based on the old fire fee study regarding the impact on a homeowner should certain properties be exempted from the fire fee. Member Herald said approximately 25.5% of the Fire Department’s total incident response comes from commercial properties such as nursing homes. It was remarked in a previous meeting a suggestion had been made to charge a commercial rate to nursing homes, etc. rather than exempting them completely. Member Herald said no new information has been received regarding the Clearwater Mall site. The Coast Guard continues to show interest in a joint partnership with the City for a station at their facility. The major concern will be appeasing the nearby residents. The Coast Guard has indicated they would give up a number of parking spaces to allow for a connection between the housing portion of that facility over to the adjacent City-owned property. Relocation of pipes would allow for a small fire station at a reduced cost. A computer model suggests the ideal location for a fire station is at the Sand Key Park. In response to a question, Ms. Goudeau said use of the Penny for Pinellas dollars are subject to annual review by the Commission. Changes to Penny projects over $500,000 require a public hearing. It was noted none of those Penny dollars are slated for the Fire Department. One member referred to a Penny list from September 1999. Budget Director Tina Wilson said she preferred to provide the Task Force with an adopted list of Penny projects. It was remarked the Commission has stated they will not allocate additional Penny for Pinellas funds until the Fire Task Force has submitted their recommendation. Ms. Simmons said the City expects approximately $12 million from the federal government for the new Memorial Causeway Bridge and money from the state over the next 8 years, but it is unknown when the City will receive those funds. She said the bridge costs would be bonded over a period of time. Ms. Simmons said the approved Penny for Pinellas list includes the debt on the roundabout, the bridge, and the library based on the best interest rate assumption 1-1/2 years ago. Those numbers will need to be revised. An updated approved Penny for Pinellas list and the September 1999 list will be distributed to members. ITEM 2 – Discussion on conceptual level re Members’ positions re funding options Individual Members present their views Member Schwob noted the Task Force has voted unanimously regarding the Fire Department’s needs. He felt the following 3 major sources of funding should be recommended in the Task Force’s final plan: 1) Penny for Pinellas funds; 2) ad valorem taxes; and 3) a fire fee. He said he is less enthusiastic about a fire fee, but feels it is a viable alternative towards obtaining necessary funds. Member Stuart agreed the City should consider use of all 3 sources listed above. Member Williams said he would like to see the majority of money for capital equipment, buildings, etc. come from Penny for Pinellas and the remainder from the ad valorem taxes. He felt the public might have concerns regarding a fire fee. Member Sherman said it is important to educate the public regarding the Fire Department’s needs. He said he has gone through a learning experience serving on the Task Force and has gained a deeper appreciation of the Fire Department. He noted increased taxes would not be positively received by the public. He felt Penny for Pinellas, taxes, and a fire fee are good funding sources. Member Kimball expressed concern with another fee. He felt the majority of funds should come from taxes. He believed some Penny for Pinellas funds should be allocated to fire and safety issues. He said future plans should be in place to prevent another funding dilemma in the Fire Department. He found it important to ensure fire and police standards are what a community expects and requires. Member Nall said he is convinced of the Fire Department’s needs indicating they will be difficult to fund in 5 years. He did not feel the Task Force should scrutinize every dollar of the costs and budgets being proposed. He felt the proposed fire assessments to enhance compliance were appropriate. He believed the temporary partnership with the Coast Guard Station should be pursued. He said there was a dire need for a fire station at Sand Key. He felt beautification efforts in the City should take a back seat to the fire and safety needs of the Fire Department. He suggested Penny for Pinellas dollars be used for capital needs and the balance to come from increased millage rates. He said he is not a proponent of a fire fee. Member Krause said he is in agreement with what has been said. Member Evich reviewed the Task Force’s mission statement, affirmed the Fire Department’s 5-year plan, and indicated that public safety and the interests of the citizens should be the highest priority. He said the City has spent a considerable amount of money on beautification and economic development to increase the tax base, however, the Fire Department has been neglected for a number of years in terms of personnel. He felt the Penny for Pinellas funds should be used for buildings, equipment and vehicles capitalized over 5 years, and the balance of funding should come from a fire fee. He believed the fire fee would ensure everyone would pay their fair share. He felt personnel costs should come from the fire fee. He believed procuring capital items from Penny dollars would provide an immediate interest savings that would otherwise be incurred. Member Lee said although other projects identified for Penny for Pinellas dollars are important, public safety should be first. He noted those projects in line for funding are not facing the issue of imposition of a fee just to bring them up to standard. He liked the idea of an inspection fee to enhance compliance. He preferred Penny for Pinellas funds for buildings and vehicles on Sand Key, for a Northwest station, and to pay for the first ladder truck in October 2000. He proposed a fire fee be implemented for the remainder of the proposal for buildings, shop and supply, training, staffing, and another ladder truck in October 2002. Member Tieman said the needs of the Fire Department should not have been neglected for such a long time. He expressed concern there is a tendency to “repair” instead of plan for the future. He agreed the inspection fees are a good tool to enhance compliance. As he is involved with community groups and projects, he feels there will be opposition to any reduction in promised Penny for Pinellas funds. He feels the Fire Department should request a large portion of Penny for Pinellas funds and the remainder should come from increased millage rates. He agreed public perception of a fire assessment fee would be negative. Member Calio noted 52 citizens attended a Commission meeting requesting rescue service at the Coast Guard station due to the number of deaths that transpired from June 1997 to June 1999. He noted the Task Force was formed to focus on fire, rescue, and public safety needs for the entire City. He agreed that Penny for Pinellas funds should be used to pay for land, building and vehicle costs and the balance from ad valorem taxes to cover personnel costs. He suggested no more than a 50% reduction in the fire assessment fee for those who are now exempt such as hospitals and churches. He felt a 5-year fire assessment fee would not keep up with the future needs of the Fire Department. Member Herald said the membership of the Fire Task Force is a diversified representation of the community. As the Fire Department presented the proposed 5-year plan to bring the department up to minimal standards, the appropriate level of service for the community was considered. He felt this Task Force is in agreement with the level of service appropriate for Clearwater. He said missed funding opportunities in the past and static millage rates have created this situation. The same funding opportunities afforded the Police Department are not available to the Fire Department. The Fire Department is operating a level of service below what a community should expect. Basic services in the form of operating costs and personnel may best be funded by ad valorem taxes although the methodology is disproportionately unfair. The ad valorem tax system provides the ability to exempt property types and the system cannot keep up with the needs of the Fire Department. He feels a fire fee is the fairest method to fund services that support the community. He agreed it is appropriate to reallocate some of the Penny for Pinellas dollars to the Fire Department infrastructure. He agrees that inspection fees are a demand management tool to curtail the continued increase in noncompliance by property owners. He noted at the end of the fifth year of the 5-year plan, the obligation to the old Fireman’s Pension Relief Fund will be satisfied, freeing up just over $1 million in the Fire Department budget. Those funds could be a potential funding source for years past 2005. He agreed the best way to avoid being in these situations is to plan ahead and make incremental increases. General discussion re possible consensus In response to a question, Member Herald said he believes in the fire fee, but feels public perception will be a deterrent. It was remarked the premise of a fire fee is to assess those who place a burden on the fire service. However, some of the heaviest users are those who pay nothing. Concern was expressed regarding the fee proposed for the bottom tier of homeowners. It was noted the County would charge a tax collection fee for using the uniform collection method. In response to a question, it was indicated maintenance of the data is estimated to be $17,000 a year, which is less than costs attributed to hiring a full time employee. Administrative Support Manager Bob Lockwood said regardless of how a fire fee is implemented, it would have no impact on the funds the City receives from the County. Mr. Lockwood said certain items, such as bonded debt, are not in the Fire Department operational budget annually. Because of items associated with the cost of doing business, they are still considered a City expense and can be added to the budget submitted to the County. Revenues generated from the Fire Department are deducted from the total overall operating cost budget. Money collected from a fire fee will not be reported as revenue and will not come off the budget reported to the County. The meeting recessed from 4:22 to 4:35 p.m. Consensus for the use of Penny for Pinellas dollars was noted. Some reluctance was expressed regarding a fire fee. Concerns included: 1) no income tax deduction; 2) the cost to collect the fee; 3) homeowners on lower end of the scale who pay no ad valorem taxes might struggle to pay a fire fee; and 4) unknown issues associated with incorporating something new. It was remarked that exempting homeowners with lower assessed property values will dilute the purpose of the fire fee. It may be assumed that homeowners living in a $25,000 home generally do not itemize deductions, but file a standard income tax form. It was commented some funding should come from the ad valorem tax. It was noted that if the funding was obtained through Penny for Pinellas and a fire fee, the millage rate may be reduced minimally. It was remarked a presentation should be made to the public before a fire fee or other funding sources are implemented. It was noted the members have agreed with the Fire Department’s 5-year plan and considered Penny for Pinellas funds, a fire fee and ad valorem taxes to be viable funding sources. It was noted it is difficult to develop plans past a 5-year period. Perpetual items such as equipment can be planned for in the normal budget process. ITEM 3 – Format of Report Discussion ensued regarding compiling the report. Ms. Goudeau said, generally, a member compiles the data and develops a written presentation. Task Force members review the presentation and make changes to it prior to it being presented to the Commission. Samples of presentations from other task forces had been distributed to the members. In response to a question, it was indicated members can compile portions of the report individually. ITEM 4 - Adjourn The meeting adjourned at 5:08 p.m.