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09/10/1998PENSION ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING CITY OF CLEARWATER September 10, 1998 Present: Rita Garvey Chair/Mayor - arrived 9:03 a.m. J. B. Johnson Vice Chair/Commissioner Robert Clark Committee Member/Commissioner Pat Greer Committee Member Pat Shepler Committee Member Dick Fitzgerald Committee Member John Scacca Committee Member Also Present: Leslie Dougall-Sides Assistant City Attorney Richard H. Ebelke Interim Director Human Resources Department Patricia O. Sullivan Board Reporter The Vice Chair called the meeting to order at 9:02 a.m. at City Hall. To provide continuity for research, items are in agenda order although not necessarily discussed in that order. ITEM #2 - Approval of Minutes Member Fitzgerald moved to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of August 13, 1998, as recorded and submitted in written summation to each board member. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. ITEM #3 - Employees to be Heard - None. ITEM #4 - Action Items a) Review and Action on Employee Requests for Years of Service Pension 1. Charles D. Daniels - Firefighter/Driver-Operator, Fire Department 2. O’Neal Larkin, Jr. - Tradesworker I, Parks & Recreation Department Member Greer moved to approve a Years of Service Pension for Charles D. Daniels and O’Neal Larkin, Jr. The motion was duly seconded. In response to a concern, it was noted retiring employees are provided an estimate of their benefits. The date of retirement affects the amount. Upon the vote being taken, the motion carried unanimously. b) Review and Action on Employee Requests to Vest Pension 1. Victor C. Chodora - Central Permitting Assistant Director, Central Permitting Department Victor C. Chodora has resigned his position after being employed by the City for more than 14 years. He will qualify to receive his reduced pension beginning March 01, 2006. AND 2. Ralph Rodriguez-Torrent - Gas Supervisor, Gas Department Ralph Rodriguez-Torrent has resigned his position after being employed by the City for more than 18 years. He will qualify to receive his reduced pension beginning November 1, 2008. In response to a question, Interim Director Human Resources Department Richard H. Ebelke stated these employees’ pension plan benefits are based on the normal formula. Member Johnson moved to approve the requests by Victor C. Chodora and Ralph Rodriguez-Torrent to vest their Pensions. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. c) Approval of New Hires as Pension Plan Members Member Johnson moved to accept the following employees into membership in the Pension Plan: Date of Pension Employment Elig. Date Scott Yates, Systems Analyst/Program. II Information Management 08/17/98 08/17/98 Jade Weppler, Maintenance Worker II Parks & Recreation Dept. 08/17/98 08/17/98 Mark Parry, Planner Central Permitting Dept. 08/17/98 08/17/98 Frank Dixon, Solid Waste Worker Solid Waste Department 08/10/98 08/10/98 Mirjana Zdjelar, Accounting Clerk General Services Dept. 08/17/98 08/17/98 The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously. ITEM #5 - Pending/New Business a) Discussion of Member Shepler letter re: Retirees older than 65 In his August 12, 1998, letter, Member Shepler requested the PAC (Pension Advisory Committee) review the Pension Plan’s “Table of Reduction Factors” for validity and fairness as it relates to employees older than 65 who have less than 20 years of service at retirement. Member Shepler stated seasoned employees bring expertise to the City. As the population is aging, he felt the Pension Plan should be modified to attract older employees. Concern was expressed staff had not provided board members with any materials regarding this issue. Administrative Support Manager Robert Lockwood said the Pension Plan provision that offers actuarially reduced pensions to older employees is unfair and violates Pension Plan rules requiring a uniform procedure for all groups. He said retiring employees who cash in their pensions lose the City’s contribution and a fair dividend. He reviewed the annual retirement benefit of a hypothetical employee who retires after 10 years of service at age 65. According to the example, a vested retirement benefit is reduced by an early retirement factor of almost 70%. The example based a 10-year pension accumulation on employee and City contributions earning 7% interest. Mr. Lockwood said the actuarial equivalency is a culprit. As employee membership in the Pension Plan is mandatory, he said seniors help subsidize the plan. The firefighter plan does not have similar restrictions. He said firefighters who retire after 20 years of service before age 55 are not required to accept actuarially reduced pensions, even though the eventual pay-out is greater. Mr. Lockwood said the PAC (Pension Advisory Comittee) is responsible for addressing plan inequities regarding the treatment of retirees. He said the current policy will have a negative impact on the City’s future labor force. Member Greer reported she had a copy of a letter from a former City employee stating she had quit due to this issue and now works in the private sector. Mr. Lockwood recommended the PAC be proactive in addressing this unfair practice which might be discriminatory. He said senior retirees should be able to recoup their contribution, the City’s contribution, and the interest. Member Shepler requested the issue be researched and inequities changed. It was noted Social Security is discriminatory. Workers who contribute during their career receive only a $200 burial allowance when they die. Retirees are not credited for employer contributions to Social Security. Mr. Lockwood said this issue affects widows and others forced into the workforce late in life. It was requested staff provide a comparison of the Pension Plan with Social Security benefits that also indicates how spouses are compensated. It was noted many local employers do not offer a comparable benefit package. It was stated older workers increase the cost of the City’s health insurance coverage. Assistant City Attorney Leslie Dougall-Sides said the tables are part of the Pension Plan. This is not a new issue. Mr. Lockwood said staff had not been advised during negotiations that the actuarial tables included a 70% downward adjustment. Information was requested on the feasibility of allowing older employees to contribute to Social Security rather than the Pension Plan. It was suggested this may be a union negotiation issue. Mr. Lockwood noted SAMP employees do not have a bargaining agent. Member Greer moved that an actuarial study consider the impact of the plan if actuarial equivalents are discontinued. The motion was duly seconded. It was felt the PAC needs more information before investing in actuarial services. Concern was expressed regarding the fairness of the issue. Member Greer withdrew the motion. The seconder indicated he would withdraw his second if the PAC commits to evaluating this issue and reviewing problems related to the actuarial tables. Information from the Legal and Human Resource departments was requested. Information was requested regarding the AARP lawsuit and its effect on this issue. Consensus was to review the issue after the committee receives additional information. ITEM #6 - Director's Reports The next PAC meeting is scheduled for October 8, 1998. ITEM #7 - Board Members to be Heard Mayor Garvey noted the Sunshine Law forbids committee members from discussing relevant issues outside meetings. Member Greer recommended the PAC hire its own attorney and requested placing this issue on the agenda. It was suggested a perceptual conflict of interest exists. Ms. Dougall-Sides said the City Attorney had provided the PAC a legal opinion that no conflict exists. The City had hired outside counsel in the Renner case. Concern was expressed that attorney had not uncovered a conflict of interest related to the doctor in the case. Concern was expressed regarding additional costs. It was felt as Ms. Dougall-Sides works for the City, she cannot always look after the best interest of City employees. It was noted the PAC only makes recommendations to the Pension Trustees. More information on this issue was requested, including if the Legal Department charges the PAC for Ms. Dougall-Sides’ time. It was stated the PAC can take no action regarding this issue as the Pension Trustees must make the decision. ITEM #8 - Adjournment The meeting adjourned at 10:28 a.m.