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01/28/1991 - Clearwater Beach Blue Ribbon Task Force . TOWN MEETING MINUTES CLEARWATER BEACH BLUE RIBBON TASK FORCE JANUARY 28, 1991 Members Excused: Chairman Deegan, Ms. Garris, Ms. Tiernan and Messrs. Doran, Fowler, Gans, Henderson, Homer, Keyes, Little, Martin McDougall, and Rosenow Messrs. Homer, Seaton and Wellborn Members Present: Others Present: Commissioners Berfield, Fitzgerald and Nunamaker; Representative Muscarella; and Michael Wright, Asst. City Manager/Community Services . Chairman Deegan opened the Town Meeting at 7:00 p.m. in the Memorial Civic Center on Clearwater Beach with a welcome to all those attending and stated they were holding the meeting to give people the opportunity to hear some of the thinking that went into the recommendations being submitted to the City Commission on February 19. The Chairman introduced each member of the task force and then gave a 40-minute formal presentation on their findings with the showing of slides. He stated the task force had been divided into six subcommittees to research the following issues: 1) Vacation/Theme; 2) Traffic and Transportation; 3) Environment/Pollution; 4) Market Niche/Competition; 5) Joint Effort With Downtown; and 6) P 1 ann i ng/Zon i ng/Land Use; and presented the major recommendations for each issue. A videotape on cruising received from the Modesto, California Police Department was also shown. At the end of the presentation, Mr. Deegan opened the meeting up for questions and comments from the audience. He asked that everyone sign a 3 x 511 card with their name and address and any question or comment that they might have; and if they wished to address the group to please use the microphone at the podium and to limit their talk to 2 minutes. . The following citizens presented their questions and comments: Tom Gionis, 490 Mandalay Avenue, spoke to the cruising ordinance. He agreed there was too much profanity, noise and litter, but did not want his sons getting tickets for driving on the beach, and asked how it was going to work. He further stated the teen market is the best we1ve got, and they don't want them scared away. He agreed some control was needed, but did not want any harassment as they have had enough of that. Herbert M. Schene, 19 Windward Island, spoke to the cruising ordinance. He stated according to the survey he noted the greatest asset was the water and sand and the greatest problem was cruising, noise making, drinking in cars, etc. He felt the young people were cruising because they do not have something else they would rather be doing at that particular time. He stated people are motivated by two things: 1) fear of punishment and 2) anticipation of receiving something good; and that the task force's recommendation was based on fear. He suggested: 1) The task force should have some young people or representatives of young people working with them to obtain their views; and 2) They should marry the greatest asset and the greatest problem, perhaps by opening the beaches until . midnight or until a certain hour. He felt we would use far less police monitoring the beach than we presently do on all the streets. He encouraged the task force to examine this from a positive point of view, asking what good could we gain by opening our beaches and parking lots for the use of the young folks. Patricia Muscarella, State Representative, 1220 Turner Street, thanked the members of the task force for their efforts. She spoke to the FEMA Regulations stating she had been working with the City of Clearwater to address the 50% rule through the Department of Community Affairs. She stated Senator Mary Grizzle has agreed to help and they will submit companion bills to the legislature. Pat Kousathanas, 854 Bay Esplanade, stated she was a student advocate and worked with students who were potential dropouts. She took exception to the Modesto cruising video stating we are not California. She thought we should be doing something for the teenagers and not just be putting them down. She stated the existing traffic controls were fine, that perhaps some other option could be looked into, but not the cruising ordinance. Bonnie Harding, 31 Island Way, wanted more information on transportation recommendations, in particular the proposed tram from the mainland. She asked if the task force wanted to eliminate the PSTA. She further stated that the maids and employees on the beach cannot dawdle on their way to work on a tram. She stated the tram would compete with PTSA. . Mike Bradshaw, motel owner on Hamden Drive and homeowner on Island Estates, stated something needed to be done about the cruising as he had friends on Coronado who were losing customers because of it. He did not see a need for one- way traffic, especially on the south end of the beach. He thought it might be useful during certain times of the year, but not during the normal course of business, and that it would hurt small hotel owners as they would not get the walk-in business. Mike Johns, 105 Bayside Drive, a hotel owner on Hamden Drive, stated the traffic was bad before the blockade was put into effect, but now there were no problems. He didn't see the need for a $100 fine, because things are about as good as they can get now. He didn't think one-way traffic would be an improvement over what we already have, as it would only put more traffic on Harnden Drive and cause traffic problems by giving the cars a chance to pull off; whereas the way it is now on Coronado, they have to keep mov i ng. He thought it wou 1 d cause disturbances in the residential areas, and that the traffic flow was the best it cou 1 d get. Michael Frangedjs, 437 S. Gulfview Blvd., a 20-year beach resident, spoke to cruising stating the beach is not as bad as the Modesto video, and he didn't think it would develop into that. He felt by putting limits and fines on our kids, we would only be presenting a challenge and there would be no end. He stated he did not like the idea of one-way streets as he thought that two-way streets were more conducive to the family oriented atmosphere of the beach. He further stated he did not want the convention center on the beach, but thought the idea of a tram was great. . Clearwater Beach Blue Ribbon Task Force 2 January 28, 1991 . . . Shel;a Cole, 200 Dolph;n Po;nt, #403, thanked the Committee for all their work, but stated she did not agree with everything. She stated Clearwater Beach is not like Modesto, CA, as we have cruising during spring break and not every night. She thought something needed to be done, but nothing that was mentioned at the meeting. With regard to the tram, she made the point that people with children, picnic lunches, umbrellas, etc. would not want to load up their car, then load everything onto the tram, and then walk any distance on the beach, when they could drive their car and park on the beach and unload only once. She stated the tram would keep people off the beach. Dav;d L;ttle, Task Force Member, responded as follows: 1) They were not planning for today or tomorrow, but for 2001, and were looking at trends; 2) There are no gangs now, but California probably didn't have them 15 years ago either; 3) Police statistics show that 83% of all violations are non-residents; and 4) He had served on a teen task force several years ago and learned that Clearwater kids don't come to the beach because all the people coming from other cities cause gridlock and deny them access to their own beach. Pete Caffentz;s, 162 Devon Dr;ve, stated he appreciated the fact the task force was tyi ng downtown together wi th the beach. He suggested a 1 so tyi ng some transportat ion from the downtown garages to the beach by us ing coupon books offering discounts on chairs, umbrellas, restaurants, etc. as a way to facilitate the small family atmosphere everyone wants on the beach. He then asked: 1) What does the scenic corridor and a family oriented community really mean? 2) What does that look like? and 3) How do we get people to use the public transportation system? He stated the county transportation should be included, and that the punitive measures used for kids on the beach makes them feel like we really don't want them. George W. Robb, ret;red motel owner and 25-year beach res;dent, stated something has to be done about the kids. He stated opening the parking lots wasn't the answer as that had been tried and drugs were sold there. He felt the trend had to change and that an ordinance was necessary, perhaps with modifications. He felt another problem was the zoning. He stated after the zoning in the 80s he noted an increase in slums and crime with a lower class of people coming in. He thought the small motel owner could redevelop if setbacks were not so large. He also thought sidewalks should not be set in 15 ft., but should be closer to the street, stating we don't need such wide streets on the beach and that two lanes are enough. Anne Garr;s, Task Force Member, replied that the task force is recommending that existing building footprints be grandfathered. Jack Spauld;ng, 850 Bruce Avenue and 53 Baymont, thanked the committee and asked the task force how they proposed to induce the property owners to make changes according to the architectural theme? John Doran, Task Force Member, responded stating the City cannot provide any tax incentives to individuals. He stated the task force proposes to do it through Clearwater Beach Blue Ribbon Task Force 3 January 28, 1991 . . . zoning, i.e., if someone wanted to redevelop, they would be allowed to do so if they conformed to the architectural guidelines or they wouldn't get a building permit. Mr. Spaulding further stated he had worked with young people in the 60s and 70s and that Clearwater ran about 5 years behind California. He thought we should be prepared for the future, but that cruising was a way of life in this country and that we needed to offer some place for young people to drive their automobiles. He suggested that we place more emphasis on automobile laws that are in place at the moment, and that by enforcing them and tightening things up we could have a calm, peaceful beach. Bob Timothy, 880 Mandalay, a 12-year beach resident, commended the task force for a job well done, and advocated that cruising should be looked into as something is desperately needed there. He stated he was for a fixed bridge on the Memorial Causeway and would like to see another super market in the area. Rick Wilson, 440 Mandalay, stated there was a problem with noise and cruising when you can't hear on the telephone. He felt a lot of business had been lost as a result of the barricades, meter maids, and harassment from police officers. He asked: 1) What can be done at the present time that won't scare off tourists; 2) What is actually being done by the City or community to attract tourists to Clearwater Beach?; 3) What activities are being planned for children and teenagers to do at night? and 4) What was the possibility of an amusement park? Julie Tiernan, Task Force Member, responded stating that most of the work is done at the County level and that the Pinellas County Tourist Development Council is working to promote Pinellas County as a whole throughout u.s. Europe and Canada. With regard to evening activities, she stated the task force has addressed this issue, but since tourists come here for rest and relaxation, we cannot compete with attractions like Orlando or Bush Gardens. She stated their ideas include things similar to Harbor Watch in Baltimore and to Rosie O'Gradys in Orlando. She also stated the task force was trying to promote the use of the Pier 60 Pavilion for various entertainment shows and educational programs. Ken Rosenow, Task Force Member, commented on the development of the tram and the cruising ordinance stating that currently 50,000 cars per day come to the beach on weekends and 60,000 per day during spring break, and that there will be more over the next few years. He stated the tram would give an alternative to this problem. David Little, Task Force Member, stated the blockade is expensive and since funds were being cut back for it, a cruising ordinance would be the best alternative. He stated we want people to come here and use the beach, but cruisers don't play volleyball, they stay on the street and tie up the roadway and prevent you from getting to your destination, the result being we are denied access to our own beach because people are circling and not getting out and enjoying the beach. Douglas Shulzendorf, 439 Poinsettia, asked to have the proposed traffic flow explained in more detail regarding traffic from the South portion of the beach to the North section. Clearwater Beach Blue Ribbon Task Force 4 January 28, 1991 . Otto Gans, Task Force Member, responded by stating they were trying to develop the best system to move people. He stated the idea of using one-way streets was to make it easier for people who know where they are going. It would also make Gulf Blvd. easier for pedestrians and would slow the traffic down for the tourist who wants to see things as they wouldnlt have to fight traffic. He invited people to view the map on display, and further stated more details would be given in their full report to the City Commission on February 19. Jann Spaulding, Pac NI Send, 53 Baymont, stated she was confused about the long range plan for the area between Poinsettia, Eastshore and the Bay for some kind of redevelopment area. She stated it was a contradiction for her because if the task force proposed some kind of amusement attraction in that area and were also suggesting one-way streets there, they were setting up a conflict with traffic. She stated she liked the idea of one-way streets for people at the north end on Manda 1 ay, but wasn I t sure one-ways were the answer a 11 over. She fe 1 t the contradiction of a family oriented redevelopment, a parking garage and a speedway should be addressed. David Little, Task Force Member, responded by stating elevated walkways from the garage to the boardwalk would eliminate walking across the street, and that one- way streets were safer to cross than two-way streets. . Mike Johns stated the Traffic Engineer had come up with a similar plan for one- way streets four or five years ago and it was shot down. He thought we should leave the traffic flow alone as the beach was not a metropolis and was not designed for one-way streets. Discussion ensued regarding traffic. It was stated that there would be no more roads on the beach, but there would be more cars. Mass transit would be needed. . Patti Homborg, 1460 S. Gulfview, asked if everything is directed to beautify the beach architecturally and to make it family oriented, how do the barriers and police patrols fit into the picture? She felt they made it look like a police state and discouraged families from visiting. Otto Gans, Task Force Member, responded that with the recommended cru i sing ordinance, the amount of police would be reduced on the beach. Phil Henderson, Task Force Member also responded stating he had not been a member of the traffic subcommittee, but understood the cruising ordinance would only be effect at the peak times when gridlock was occurring. He stated we did have a problem when the pol ice came with the barricades and that they have been effective, but if we eliminate them and don't have something in their place, we will have the same thing allover again. He further stated that something to keep in mind when talking about this ordinance was that it would be in effect from 10:00 p.m. on when cruising takes place. He further stated that Lt. Sibbert had told him that cruising between Christmas and New Years had not reached the level at which a cruising ordinance would be initiated. He also informed the audience that no city which has a cruising ordinance has had to implement it, because most of the cruisers are coming from a distance and if they think there is a chance the ordinance will be implemented, they are discouraged from coming. Clearwater Beach Blue Ribbon Task Force 5 January 28, 1991 . . . David Little, Task Force Member, clarified the fact that the cruising ordinance had been used in a few cities, but not more than once or twice. Mike Frangedjs thought unmarked cars and plain clothes police officers should be used. Rick Wilson suggested plain clothes officers on foot should be used to ticket violators. Michael Frangedjs asked how the citizens would be kept informed of progress on the task force1s recommendations. Mr. Deegan replied that the task force was a study group appointed by the City Commission and that they would be presenting their findings to the City Commission on February 19, and it would then be up to the Commission to decide what to do with the recommendations. A quest i on was ra i sed regard i ng whether the task force had any plans for beautifying the beach. John Doran, Task Force Member, replied they do have plans and presented the architectural renderings for a streetscape and landscaping plans. He stressed that everyone, city and private people alike, should be part of the solution. Ed Marchiselli, 917 Mandalay Avenue, a 22 year north beach resident, stated his main concern was with the sewage and the water shortage on the beach. He stated he couldn't see how any of the task force's recommendation would help any of that. A question was raised regarding the success of attendant parking at the Pier 60 lot. It was stated it was successful and is being recommended for other large lots. In response to a question, the difference between price and length of time for various meters was explained. Mike Johns thanked the task force for all their work and dedication and for conducting a very professional meeting. Mr. Deegan thanked the City staff for the great cooperation they had shown them and wanted everyone to know how helpful they had been in working with them all along the way. He thanked everyone for coming to the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m. Arthur X. Deegan II, Chairman Clearwater Beach Blue Ribbon Task Force 6 January 28, 1991