11/16/1993
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The City Commission of the City of Clearwater met at the Morningside Recreation
Center with the following members present:
TOWN MEETING
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November 16, 1993
Arthur X. Deegan, II
Richard Fitzgerald
Sue A. Berfield
Fred A. Thomas
Vice~Mayor /Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Absent:
Rita Garvey
Mayor /Commissioner
Also present:
Cynthia E. Goudeau
City Clerk
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The meeting was opened at 7:30 p.m. by Vice Mayor Deegan.
Bill Zinzow questioned the City Hall issue and said he favored constructing the new
City Hall on the Annex property. He felt Clearwater needs a new City Hall. Commissioner
Thomas questioned where Mr. Zinzow would suggest locating City Hall if an opportunity
arose to develop the Annex property and create 1,000 new jobs in Clearwater. Mr. Zinzow
said he would have to evaluate the alternatives then. Commissioner Thomas pressed Mr.
Zinzow, who then indicated his second choice would probably be the Chick Smith
property. Commissioner Thomas said that property is on the tax rolls and is capable of
being kept there. He noted the bluff property is not currently on the tax rolls. Mr. Zinzow
suggested the bluff property could be returned to the tax rolls. Commissioner Thoma~
disagreed because the Baptist Church owns the surrounding property which cannot be
converted to commercial property. Mr. Zinzow suggested relocating the main library.
Commissioner Thomas indicated negotiations were occurring regarding the purchase
of the Ann'ex property. Jim Thornton questioned what type of business had expressed
interest. Commissioner Thomas said he could not say. Mr. Thornton noted the Annex
parcel is large. Commissioner Deegan indicated the City hoped a mixed use could occur on
that site. Mr. Thornton saw no reason why the property could not support a mixed use
'and a City Hall.
Mrs. Thornton questioned Commissioner Thomas' recommendation for the Annex
property. Commissioner Thomas said a business was negotiating for the property. Mr.
Thornton agreed nothing should be added to the bluff. Commissioner Thomas said he did
not want to do anything that would harm the church. Mr. Zinzow questioned why there
was a hurry to do anything. Commissioner Deegan indicated City employees work in a
building that has been declared unfit and noted the project has been delayed for 1 5
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Commissioner Fitzgerald expressed concern that he was not well informed regarding
negotiations referred to by Commissioner Thomas.
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months. Commissioner Thomas said needed ADA improvements will result in a massive
expense. The ADA problem will be addressed once something is under construction.
Commissioner Deegan stated a master plan has been requested for the whole area. Mr.
Thornton said he was not aware of a master plan but has seen proposals come and go.
Commissioner Berfield referred to a recent meeting broadcast by Vision Cable and
noted 11, of the 15 people that spoke, favored the Annex site. Three individuals changed
their mind based on the estimated high cost of the project. She said she has not changed
her mind regarding City Hall and noted she cannot speak with other Commissioners
regarding their opinions. She said not all newspaper articles are accurate. Mrs. Thornton
said she has watched this process for 21 years and felt no one is doing anything but
spending a lot of money.
Mr. Thornton questioned moving ttCitizens to be Heardlt to later in the meeting.
Commissioner Berfield responded that people who had paid application fees and had been
scheduled early in the meeting were not being heard until 60 or 90 minutes later.
Commissioner Thomas indicated opportunities for citizens to the heard has increased from
once every two weeks to twice every two weeks as "Citizens to be Heard" was added to
Monday meetings.
,--) David Campbell recommended setting aside an hour at the beginning of the meeting
~........," for "Citizens to be Heard. tt Commissioner Deegan questioned why people with
unagendaed items should take precedence over those who have paid their fees and waited '
weeks to have their applications heard. He said UCitizens to be Heard" has been abused
by three or four individuals who appeared repeatedly regarding the same item. He said if
individuals wish to have an item on the agenda, thoy need to call and have it placed there.
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Commissioner Thomas said the City has been very lax in discipline regarding
UCitizens to be Heard.'1 He felt it should be as open as possible. He stated, however, he
was looking at being very tight on the clock as the time allotted for groups had also been
abused. He suggested setting aside 30 minutes at the beginning of meetings for
individuals, who first complete cards, to speak for three minutes each. Commissioner
Deegan said moving "Citizens to be Heard" and abiding by a tight time frame will limit the
time spent in meetings.
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Mr. Thornton expressed concern that ticklish subjects will be addressed during the
day now that Work Sessions have been changed to official meetings. Commissioner
. Deegan pointed out issues addressed during Monday meetings are usually contracts and
things that do not need to be aired again. He felt the new schedule will eliminate
duplication. He stated Public Hearings Bre always held on Thursday night. He said the
public can speak on any item at either meeting. '
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Commissioners Thomas and Deegan expressed concern regarding the newspaper
slanting the reasons for changing the meeting schedule. Commissioner Berfield referred to
the reviews of the City Manager and City Attorney and questioned if anyone would like to
have their evaluations presented in public. Commissioner Deegan concurred saying the
'Commission had decided to have private individual sessions to evaluate these two
individuals and that a public report would be provided. He said the Charter allows the City
Commission to choose the manner of evaluation.
Commissioner Fitzgerald felt the public had been cut off from participation by the
change in the rules and pointed out that most of the Commission rules were changed.
Commissioner Deegan requested specifics. Commissioner Fitzgerald said he was not in
agreement with discontinuing Work Sessions as he felt they represented a valuable process
and allowed Commission members to obtain input prior to being in the decision making
mode. Commissioner Deegan said Commissioners can still do that as they receive
information two weeks ahead of time. Commissioner Fitzgerald said that is different from
having a group discussion. Commissioner Deegan felt this approach was preferable than
having the Commission sit around and ask questions. Commissioner Fitzgerald noted the
purpose of the Work Session was to hear all other questions and to discuss philosophical
differences. He said, for example, one Commission member has additional information
regarding the Annex property that he does not have. Commissioner Thomas said based on
his experience in business, he knows one has to ask questions which is why he has
information Commissioner Fitzgerald does not.
Commissioner Berfield expressed concern that her request to continue the Sun Bank
building decision had been denied even though the Commission's policy is to continue an
item upon a Commissioner's request.
David Campbell said he has seen Commissioner Thomas go onto other things after
ideas he brought up were shot down. Commissioner Thomas said he does his own work,
including research. Commissioner Fitzgerald said he recognized majority rule. Urith
Fitzgerald noted questions were allowed at Work Sessions. Commissioner Deegan said he
questions staff all the time. Mrs. Fitzgerald pointed out that Commissioner Thomas has his
own staff. Commissioner Thomas said they work with City staff. Mrs. Thornton felt it
was unbalanced when.the fest of the Commissioners do not have extra help available.
Commissioner Thomas said he does things in writing and distributes a copy to all
Commissioners. He cited as an example, his memorandum regarding the traffic light issue.
Commissioner Fitzgerald expressed concerns regarding receiving hundreds of pieces
of paper and then having items appear on the agenda for a decision. Mrs. Fitzgerald said
having a paid staff is like having ones own attorney. She said the staff member always
will support the employer's point of view. She felt that was true for Commissioner
Thomas' staff who backs what he brings forward. Commissioner Thomas felt people
working for him are objective on issues and their research is factual.
Mrs. Thornton expressed concern regarding the traffic signal at the intersection of
North Greenwood Avenue and Drew Street. Commissioner Berfield said she brought the
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list forward because the proposed elimination of the traffic signal on Belcher Road in front
of Publix was questioned. Commissioner Thomas said that was the reason he issued the
traffic light list. He said he Is trying to have a traffic signal installed at the intersection of
Marlo Boulevard and McMullen~Booth Road and has requested the City Attorney research if
Clearwater and Safety Harbor can install a signal at there.
Mr. Campbell felt if an issue is brought forward and subsequently shot down, it
should be dead. Commissioner Deegan said all Commissioners should use all information
sources available to them. Mrs. Thornton expressed concern that Commissioners are
unable to discuss issues like they did at Work Sessions. Mr. Thornton expressed concern
that the Work Session process that allowed exchange has been eliminated. Commissioner
Deegan disagreed and stated the Commissioners still have an opportunity to exchange
information. Commissioner Thomas said at least one item has been continued at every
meeting. He stated no one wins every issue. He said the Sun Bank issue was shoved
down his throat and felt the voters had been taken.
Mrs. Fitzgerald pointed out that Commissioner Thomas' supporters say 70% of the
people voted for him. She noted he received 70% of the votes cast by the small
percentage of citizens who voted. Commissioner Deegan said the Mayor only received
45%. Mrs. Thornton pointed out that was a different type of race.
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Mr. Thornton questioned the size of the Annex property. Commissioner Thomas said
the Annex site comprises 18.6 acres. He said the company that is negotiating wants more
land. Commissioner Deegan noted the City had not received a valid offer for the land
previously. Commissioner Thomas said no offer is on the table at this time. He said it is a
problem when churches and governments take property off the tax rolls. He noted a
recently adopted State amendment caps property taxes. He said the City must find the
most viable project for the Annex property and include a deed restriction that will prevent it
from being removed from the tax roll in the future.
Mr. Campbell questioned where City Hall would go if the Annex property is sold. He
questioned why the Campbell property was not considered as it is located in the center of
town. Commissioner Deegan said the Commission is trying to keep City Hall in the
downtown area. Mr. Campbell suggested splitting the administrative and legislative areas
of the organization. Commissioner Deegan said that would result in additional costs. Mr.
Campbell suggested the Bilgore property. Commissioner Thomas said that was not large
enough. Commissioner Deegan indicated a desire to return that property to the tax roll.
Commissioner Thomas indicated the Southwest Florida Water Management District
(SWFWMD) wants much of the concrete downtown removed. He proposed constructing
residential townhouses around a lake. He felt the area should be called "Old Clearwater,"
not downtown. He noted the City has migrated and felt improvements should replicate
original development. Mr. Thornton agreed property should be placed back on the tax rolls
but felt that would be difficult because of depressed property values. He felt the City
Commission is responsible for these lowered values. Commissioner Deegan said a catalyst
is needed for redevelopment. Commissioner Thomas said owners on the beach are unable
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to redevelop their property since the Commission downzoned the area 12 years ago. He
indicated much needs to be done and said the City has been "stuck in the mud" for a long
time. He said the City has to take the bad things that have happened and change them.
Mr. Campbell said the City has come a long way with Vision Cable in the past year
and questioned why Monday meetings are not broadcast. It was indicated this would be
checked. Mr. Campbell requested the Commission make every effort not to postpone a
meeting to a non regular day unless the schedule change is coordinated with Vision Cable.
Commissioner Thomas said the policy was for all Commission meetings to be taped.
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Mr. Campbell referred to a roofing job done on his house last fall. The work began
October 4, 1992, and the building inspector signed off on a partial roof. Work was
completed October 22, 1992. He said he had not seen a City inspector and was unfamiliar
with the process. Commissioner Deegan said the contractor is responsible for scheduling
the inspections. Mr. Campbell said he spoke with Vic Chodora, the building official, and"
indicated an inspection had not occurred. Mr. Chodora advised him a Notice of
Commencement had to be filed before an inspection would occur. Mr. Campbell
questioned what would happen if no inspection occurred. He was advised an inspector
would review the project and, if all appeared OK, would close the case with no penalty
charged to the roofer. Commissioner Thomas said Florida laws arB skewed in favor of
contractors. They must be given notification of cure and the owner has no standing unless
they do. Mr. Campbell said Mr. Chodora was very helpful and knowledgeable but he felt
he had been cheated out of the services of building inspection and that contractors are
mocking the City of Clearwater. He said a roof is a major investment and requires
protection. He said in the permitting process, the owner should be provided an easi:y
understandable single sheet listing what needs to be done. He felt this information should
be mailed to the owner, not the contractor. Commissioner Doegan said in principal,
ignorance is no excuse. Mr. Campbell reiterated that information should be mailed to the
homeowner when the permit is pulled.
Commissioner Deegan thanked the audience for their frank discussion. He again said
the public should not take the newspaper at its word.
Mrs. Fitzgerald questioned if Commissioner Barfield had made up her mind regarding
City Hall. Commissioner Berfield indicated"she had not. She stated she has requested
information from Betty Deptula regarding projected savings and reported staff is trying to
complete a spread sheet by Thursday night. Commissioner Deegan said only one reporter
requested his opinion. He indicated he would consider the options carefully.
Commissioner Thomas said he would be getting something out this evening.
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Mr. Zinzow said he thought the City Commission was an open and intelligent group
of people, moral and honest. Commissioner Thomas said he holds all Commission
members in high regard although they are often split on their opinions. He said Clearwater
is fortunate to have elected people who are morally and ethically sound. He said this is not
easy work and it is easier to run your own business.
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Mr. Campbell referred to the Community Consensus process and praised it. It was
indicated the next session of questionnaires would be demographically balanced for Input
and the results would guide next year's budget process. Commissioner Deegan indicated
the results would affect decisions even further in the future.
Mr. Thornton questioned the status of the Boy Scout camp, noting its value and how
its loss could not be replaced. Commissioner Deegan said this issue had been brought up
, and the board has not given up on it. Commissioner Thomas indicated the organization is
split., He is working with attorneys to develop a way to sell small pieces as fund raising to
, keep it. Monies from the sales would be invested in a permanent endowment to keep the
camp.
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The meeting adjourned at 9: 1 0 p.m.
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