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Fire ,Task Force
MINUTES
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~ FIRE TASK FORCE MEETING
CITY OF CLEARWATER
January 11 t 2000
Present: Cyndie Goudeau Acting Chair/City Clerk (Non-voting)
Joe Calia Task Force Member
Joe Evich Task Force Member - arrived 3:06 p.m.
Rowland Herald Task Force Member
Russ Kimball Task Force Member
George Krause Task Force Member
John Lee Task Force Member
'1 Scott Nail Task Force Member
~i11 Schwab Task Force Member
Duke Tieman Task Force Member
William Sherman Task Force Member
, , Doug Williams Task Force Member
_.f' ' Jean Stuart Task Force Alternate
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Absent: Bill Horne Chair (Non-voting)
Also Present: John Carassas Assistant City Attorney - arrived 3:30 p.m.
:' Margie Simmons Finance Director
Tina Wilson Budget Director
,0 Sue Diana Assistant City Clerk
Brenda Moses Board Reporter
The Acting Chair called the meeting to order at 3:00 p.m. at City Hall.
To provide continuity for research. items are in agenda order although not
necessarily discussed in that order.
Finance Director Margie Simmons noted the figures distributed at the
January 4, 2000 financial presentation were correct. She reviewed the recap of
proposed expenditures, explained each option and distributed Options 6 and 6A.
She said these are staff's best estimates. '
, Option 6 proposes that all land, buildings, and vehicles are paid from Penny
for Pinellas funds, the general fund would remain the same as the current year, and
the remainder of funds would come from a fire fee. Option 6a proposes that all
land, buildings, and vehicles are paid from Penny for Pinellas funds and the rest
from ad valorem taxes.
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In response to a question, it was indicated no land costs were included in the
figures. Ms. Simmons presented information based on the old fire fee study
regarding the impact on a homeowner should certain properties be exempted from
the fire fee. Member Herald said approximately 25.5% of the Fire Department's
total incident response comes from commercial properties such as nursing homes.
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It was remarked in a previous meeting a suggestion had been made to charge a
commercial rate to nursing homes, etc. rather than exempting them completely.
Member Herald said no new information has been received regarding the
Clearwater Mall site. The Coast Guard continues to show interest in a joint
partnership with the City for a station at their facility. The major concern will be
appeasing the nearby residents. The Coast Guard has indicated they would give up
a number of parking spaces to allow for a connection between the housing portion
of that facility over to the adjacent City-owned property. Relocation of pipes would
allow for a small fire station at a reduced cost. A computer model suggests the
ideal location for a fire station is at the Sand Key Park.
In response to a question, Ms. Goudeau said use of the Penny for Pinellas
dollars are subject to annual review by the Commission. Changes to Penny projects
over $500,000 require a public hearing. It was noted none of those Penny dollars
. are slated for the Fire Department. One member referred to a Penny list from
September 1999. Budget Director Tina Wilson said she preferred to provide the
Task Force with an adopted list of Penny projects. It was remarked the Commission
has stated they will not allocate additional Penny for Pinellas funds until the Fire
Task Force has submitted their recommendation.
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Ms. Simmons said the City expects approximately $12 million from 'the
federal government for the new Memorial Causeway Bridge and money from the
state over the next 8 years, but it is unknown when the, City will receive those
funds. She said the bridge costs would be bonded over a period of time. Ms.
Simmons said the approved Penny for Pinellas list includes the debt on the
roundabout, the bridge, and the library based on the best interest rate assumption
1-1/2 years ago. Those numbers will need to be revised. An updated approved
Penny for Pinellas list and the September 1999 list will be distributed to members.
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ITEM 2 - Discussion on conceptual level re Members' positions re fundinQ options
A. Individual Members present their views
Member Schwob noted the Task Force has voted unanimously regarding the
Fire Department's needs. He felt the following 3 major sources of funding should
be recommended in the Task Force's final plan: 1} Penny for Pinellas funds; 2) ad
valorem taxes; and 3) a fire fee. He said he is less enthusiastic about a fire fee, but
feels it is a viable alternative towards obtaining necessary funds.
Member Stuart agreed the City should consider use of all 3 sources listed
above.
Member Williams said he would like to see the majority of money for capital
equipment, buildings, etc. come from Penny for Pinellas and the remainder from tho
ad valorem taxes. He felt the public might have concerns regarding a fire fee.
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I) Member Sherman said it is important to educate the public regarding the Fire
. .." Department's needs. He said he has gone through a learning experience serving on
the Task Force and has gained a deeper appreciation of the Fire Department. He
noted'lncreased taxes would not be positively received by the public. He felt Penny
for Pinellas, taxes, and a fire fee are good funding sources.
Member Kimball expressed concern with another fee. He felt the majority of
funds should come from taxes. He believed some Penny for Pinellas funds should
be allocated to fire and safety issues. He said future plans should be in place to
prevent another funding dilemma in the Fire Department. He found it important to
ensure fire and police standards are what a community expects and requires.
Member Nail said he is convinced of the Fire Department's needs indicating
they will be difficult to fund in 5 years. He did not feel the Task Force should
scrutinize every dollar of the costs and budgets being proposed. He felt the
proposed fire assessments to enhance compliance were appropriate. He be1iev~d
the temporary partnership with the Coast Guard Station should be pursued. He said
there was a dire need for a fire station at Sand Key. He felt beautification efforts in
,the City should take a back seat to the fire and safety needs of the Fire
Department. He suggested Penny for Pinel1as dollars be used for capital needs and
the balance to come from increased millage rates. He said he is not a proponent of
a fire fee.
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Member Krause said he is in agreement with what has been said.
Member Evich reviewed the Task Force's mission statement, affirmed the
Fire Department's 5-year plan, and indicated that public safety and the interests of
the citizens should be the highest priority. He said the City has spent a
considerable amount of money on beautification and economic development to
increase the tax base, however, the Fire Department has been neglected for a
number of years in terms of personnel. He felt the Penny for Pinellas funds should
be used for buildings, equipment and vehicles capitalized over 5 years, and the
balance of funding should come from a fire fee. He believed the fire fee would
ensure everyone would pay their fair share. He felt personnel costs should come
from the fire fee. He believed procuring capital items from Penny dollars would
provide an immediate interest savings that would otherwise be incurred.
Member Lee said although other projects identified for Penny for Pinellas
dollars are important, public safety should be first. He noted those projects in line
for funding are not facing the issue of imposition of a fee just to bring them up to
standard. He liked the idea of an inspection fee to enhance compliance. He
preferred Penny for Pinellas funds for buildings and vehicles on Sand Key, for a
Northwest station, and to pay for the first ladder truck in October 2000. He
proposed a fire fee be implemented for the remainder of the proposal for buildings,
shop and supply, training, staffing, and another ladder truck in October 2002.
Member Tieman said the needs of the Fire Department should not have been
',-"I neglected for such a long time. He expressed concern there is a tendency to
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IIrepalr" instead of plan for the future. He agreed the inspectio'n fees are a good
tool to enhance compliance. As he is involved with community groups and
projects, he feels there will be opposition to any reduction in promised Penny for
Pinellas funds. ' He feels the Fire Department should request a large portion of Penny
for Pinellas funds and the remainder should come from increased millage rates. He
agreed public perception of a fire assessment fee would be negative.
Member Calio noted 52 citizens attended a Commission meeting requesting
rescue service at the Coast Guard station due to the number of deaths that
transpired from June 1997 to June 1999. He noted the Task Force was formed to
focus on fire, rescue, ar:1d public safety needs for the entire City. He agreed that
Penny for Pinellas funds should be used to pay for land, building and vehicle costs
and the balance from ad valorem taxes to cover personnel costs. He suggested no
more than a 50% reduction in the fire assessment fee for those who are now
exempt such as hospitals and churches. He felt a 5-year fire assessment fee would
not keep up with the future needs of the Fire Department.
Member Herald said the membership of the Fire Task Force is a diversified
representati~n of the community. As the Fire Department presented the proposed
5-year plan to bring the department up to minimal standards, the appropriate level'
of service for the community was considered. He felt this Task Force is in
agreement with the level of service appropriate for Clearwater. He said missed
funding opportunities in the past and static millage rates have created this situation.
The same funding opportunities afforded the Police Department are not available to
the Fire Department. The Fire Department is operating a level of service below
what a community should expect. Basic services in the form of operating costs and
personnel may best be funded by ad valorem taxes although the methodology is
disproportionately unfair. The ad valorem tax system provides the ability to exempt
property types and the system cannot keep up with the needs of the Fire
Department. He feels a fire fee is the fairest method to fund services that support
the community. He agreed it is appropriate to reallocate some of the Penny for
Pinellas dollars to the Fire Department infrastructure. He agrees that inspection fees
are a demand management tool to curtail the continued increase in noncompliance
by property owners. He noted at the end of the fifth year of the 5-year plan, the
obligation to the old Fireman's Pension Relief Fund will be satisfied, freeing up just
over $1 million in the Fire Department budget. Those funds could be a potential
funding source for years past 2005. He agreed the best way to avoid being in
. trese situations is to plan ahead and make incremental increases.
B. General discussion re possible consensus
In response to a question, Member Herald said he believes in the fire fee, but
feels public perception will be a deterrent. It was remarked the premise of a fire fee
is to assess those who place a burden on the fire service. However, some of the
heaviest users are those who pay nothing. Concern was expressed regarding the
fee proposed for the bottom tier of homeowners. It was noted the County would
charg~ a tax collection fee for using the uniform collection method. In response to
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a question, it was indicated maintenance of the data is estimated to be $17,000 a
year, which Is less than costs attributed to hiring a full time employee.
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Administrative Support Manager Bob Lockwood said regardless of how a fire
fee is implemented, it would have no impact on the funds the City receives from the
County. Mr. Lockwood said certain items, such as bonded debt, are not in the Fire
Department operational budget annually. Because of itl3ms associated with the cost
of doing business, they are still considered a City expense and can be added to the
budget submitted to the County. Revenues generated from the Fire Department are
deducted from the total overall operating cost budget. Money collected from a fire
fee will not be reported as revenue and will not come off the budget reported to the
County.
The meeting recessed from 4:22 to 4:35 p.m.
Consensus for the use of Penny for Pinellas dollars was noted. Some
reluctance was expressed regarding a fire fee. Concerns included: 1) no income
tax deduction; 2) the cost to collect the fee; 3) homeowners on lower end of the
scale who pay no ad valorem taxes might struggle to pay a fire fee; and 4)
unknown issues associated with incorporating something new.
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It was remarked that exempting homeowners with lower assessed property
values will dilute the purpose of the fire fee. It may be assumed that homeowners
living in a $25,000 home generally do not itemize deductions~ but file a standard
Income tax form. It was commented some funding should come from the ad
valorem uix. It was noted that if the funding was obtained through Penny for
Pinellas and a fire fee, the millage rate may be reduced minimally. It was remarked
a presentation should be made to the public before a fire fee or other funding
sources are implemented.
It was noted the members have agreed with the Fire Department's 5-year
plan and considered Penny for Pinellas funds, a fire fee and ad valorem taxes to be
viable funding sourc~s.
It was noted it is difficult to develop plans past a 5-year period. Perpetual
items such as equipment can be planned for in the normal budget process.
ITEM 3 - Format of Report
Discussion ensued regarding compiling the report. Ms. Goudeau said,
. generally, a member compiles the data and develops a written presentation. Task
Force members review the presentation and make changes to it prior to it being
presented to the Commission. Samples of presentations from other task forces had
been distributed to the members. In response to a question, it was indicated
members can compile portions of the report individually.
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ITEM 4
Adlourn
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"'The meeting adjourned at 5:08 p.m.
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Chair
Fire Task Force
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