05/27/1992 (2)
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.... MAAS BROTHERS
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TASK FORCE
MINUTES
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MAAS BROTHERS TASK FORCE
May 27, 1992
Members present:
Ed Mazur, Chairperson
Jim Graham, Vice-Chairperson (arrived 3:06 p.m.)
John B. Johnson
Hal Ebersole
Stephen Saliga
Wray Register
Bob Bickerstaffe
Phoebe Moss
David Little
Gregory Jewell (arrived 3:19 p.m.)
Debra Weible (arrived 3:19 p.m.)
Joshua Magidson (arrived 3:24 p.m.)
Jackie Tobin (arrived 3:56 p.m.)
Members Absent:
Robert Kennedy
Nancy Simmons
(:) Also Present:
Cynthia E. Goudeau, City Clerk
The meeting was called to order at 3:04 p.m. at the Clearwater East Library.
The Chairman called the meeting to order and stated over the weekend he had prepared
a draft report which had blanks in areas where the recommendations would be inserted. He
stated Appendix #1 would be the financial information provided to the Task Force by staff and
Appendix #2 would be all the memos that have been submitted by Task Force members. He
requested the members review this prior to tomorrow's meeting in order to finalize the report.
He stated he felt at the last meeting most motions centered around one concept, however,
some were too nebulous and others too detailed. He stated he would like the Task Force to
consider making a motion' that would get the primary point across and then make secondary
motions to fill in details.
Member Bickerstaffe requested to make a presentation. He stated his concept would
provide all things asked for by the citizens, open space, income, a restaurant, shops, a civic
center, improvement of the tax base and support of tourism. His recommendation is to return
the property to City ownership in order to protect open space but to leave the current building
in place for now and allow a restaurant and shops to occupy a portion of the space with the top
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floor being used as a civic center and auditorium and City employees being housed on the lowest
floor during the implementation of the Downtown Plan and the site also be used to support
tourism by providing a tram station for public transportation.
He complimented the City Manager for his Downtown plan stating that while everyone
does not agree with all aspects, it is at least taking some direction. He felt that by working
together, downtown could be redeveloped. He felt that after the Downtown Plan is in place, a
more permanent resolution of the use of the Maas Brothers site could then be sought.
Member Bickerstaffe moved that the Maas Brothers Task Force recommend the City
Commission return the Maas Brothers property to City ownership, leave the current building in
place and lease it or a portion of it for commercial uses requested by the people, rent space on
the roof to private enterprise to build a first class restaurant, rent space on the Osceola level to
operators of shops and entertainment facilities, use the top floor for a badly needed civic center,
auditorium and tourist conference center with a minimum capacity of 2,000, accommodate City
staff from the City Hall Annex on the first floor, if needed, during the implementation of the
Downtown Plan and provide a tram station for "fun" public transportation to and from Clearwater
Beach. The motion was duly seconded.
A question was raised regarding a statement Mr. Bickerstaffe had made during his
presentation that it would cost as much to tear down the building as to refurbish it. Mr.
Bickerstaffe indicated he may have been a little off on those figures but his basic concern is to
use the current building to obtain a return on the City's investment and then later the property
could be used for whatever purpose downtown development dictates.
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Discussion ensued regarding the need to keep the current building and whether or not
tenants could be found.
Concerns were also expressed regarding whether or not the City would manage the
building, how the building would be leased or sub-leased and regarding City vehicles being parked
on the property.
It was also stated that it was felt the Task Force's mission was to establish the optimum
use for the property in the long term.
A concern was expressed that this would not bring people to the area as it offered nothing
that was not already in the area.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Bickerstaffe and Saliga voted" Aye"; Members
Weible, Little, Register, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Ebersole, Moss and Johnson voted
"Nay". Motion failed.
A question was raisod regarding whether or not letters that had been submitted by absent
Task Force members could be used as votes and it was indicated this was not allowed.
Member Graham moved that the building be torn down and something be done with the
site other than a park. The motion was duly seconded.
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Discussion ensued regarding whether or not the Task Force should be suggesting the
building be torn down or whether that should be left to what is determined to be done with the
property.
Concerns were expressed that the motion was not specific enough as to what should be
done with the property if the building is razed.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Graham and Jewell voted" Aye"; Members
Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Moss, Ebersole, Saliga and Johnson voted "Nay".
Motion failed. '
Discussion ensued regarding making a motion to enter negotiations with the Art Center,
requiring a restaurant, auditorium, etc. Concerns were expressed that the Task Force was getting
bogged down in details.
Concerns were also expressed regarding the City needing to maintain control of the
property.
Member Register moved that the City Commission enter into negotiations with the Florida
Gulf coast Art Center for their proposal to use the 3.8 acre Maas Brothers property. The motion
was duly seconded.
In response to a question, it was indicated the motion was limited to only addressing the
3.8 acre Maas Brothers site.
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~;r~ Upon tho vote being taken: Members Weible, Little, Register, Magidson, Mazur, Graham,
Jewell, Tobin, Moss, Ebersole and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Bickerstaffe and Saliga voted
"Nay". Motion carried.
Member Jewell moved that in addition to the Art Center on the 3.8 acres, that the
remainder of the bluff be opened up for consideration of commercial development. The motion
was duly seconded.
It was requested that motions regarding the remainder of the bluff be held until such time
as the Maas Brothers site has been fully addressed.
Mr. Jewell withdrew his motion and the seconder withdrew their second.
Member Magidson moved that regarding the 3.8 acre Maas Brothers site, if negotiations
with the Florida Gulf coast Art Center do not work out, the land be retained as a park and that
as a part of the negotiations with the Art Center, the City maintain control of the property and
that in the negotiations the property can only be used by the Florida Gulf coast Art Center as an
art center and that the remainder of the property, other than that needed for the footprint of the
Art Center building, would be parkland. The motion was duly seconded.
A question was raised regarding whether or not any development would be allowed in a
park. Mr. Magidson stated his motion did not preclude buildings in the park that would be open
for public use.
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Concerns were expressed regarding "handcuffing" the City Commission in its negotiations
with the Art Center. Mr. Magidson indicated his motion was a back up motion in case
negotiations with the Art Center fail.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Magidson, Bickerstaffe and Saliga voted "Aye";
Members Weible, Register, Mazur, Graham, Ebersole, Tobin, Moss, Jewell, Little and Johnson
voted "Nay". Motion failed.
Discussion ensued regarding whether or not the Task Force wished to make additional
motions regarding the use of the 3.8 acre site.
Member Little moved that whatever property not needed by the Florida Gulf coast Art
Center, west of their facility, be made into parkland. The motion was duly seconded.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, little, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Tobin,
Moss, Register and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Bickerstaffe, Ebersole, Saliga and Jewell
voted "Nay". Motion carried.
Member Weible moved that if negotiations with the Art Center fall through, the site be
considered for redevelopment by the City. The motion was duly seconded.
Concerns were expressed regarding the Coachman donation having been made in order
to make this area parkland.
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Member WeibJe amended her motion to read, if negotiations with the Art Center fall
through, the top of the bluff, above the 28 foot line, be considered for redevelopment by the City
with the lower portion, below the 28 foot line, to be used as parkland. The seconder accepted
the amendment.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Mazur, Graham, Jewell, Moss and Tobin
voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Johnson, Saliga and Ebersole
voted "Nay". Motion failed.
Concerns were expressed that the issue of City control had not been addressed.
A concern was expressed that a member's motion submitted in a letter had not been
recognized. It was indicated that while letters had been submitted, that is not the manner in
which motions are made. The Chairman indicated that currently the Task Force is concentrating
on the primary recommendation and any secondary motions regarding things that should be
considered in that recommendation. Once that is finished, motions regarding other portions of
the bluff and how to reach the recommendation will be considered.
Member Johnson moved that any cost of demolition of the building be borne by the Florida
Gulf coast Art Center. The motion was duly seconded.
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Concerns were expressed again regarding tying the hands of the City in the negotiations.
It was indicated the City will not be bound by these suggestions, rather these are subjects for
them to consider during negotiations.
Maas
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Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur,
Graham, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Jewell and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Weible and Saliga
voted "Nay". Motion carried.
Member Johnson moved that title or control of the land remain with the City. The motion
was duly seconded and carried unanimously.
Member Little moved that in the negotiations that the City and the Arts Center consider
providing a civic room/auditorium of a minimum size that would hold 500 people in a banquet
setting. The motion was dUly seconded.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Mazur, Graham, Ebersole, Moss,
Tobin, Jewell, Weible and Johnson voted "Aye"; Mambers Bickerstaffe, Magidson and Saliga
voted "Nay". Motion carried.
Member Little moved that it be considered that a restaurant be provided on site with a
waterfront vista of a sufficient size to qualify them to acquire a beer and wine license and this
restaurant be open to the public. The motion was duly seconded.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Mazur, Weible, Tobin,
Graham, Jewell, Moss and Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Magidson. Ebersole and Johnson voted
"Nay". Motion carried.
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Member Little moved that the City and the Art Center consider providing a transportation
hub on site. The motion was duly seconded.
A concern was expressed regarding whether or not this transportation hub would be the
responsibility of the Art Center. It was indicated it is not intended that this be the responsibility
of the Art Center and that the location, whether above or below the bluff, would be subject to
discussion.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Mazur,
Graham', Jewell, Moss and Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Magidson, Ebersole, Tobin and Johnson
votlJd "Nay". Motion carried.
Member Bickerstaffe moved that if the City and the Art Center do not enter into an
agreement that the existing building be put to a productive interim use. The motion was duly
seconded.
Concerns were expressed that this would set a precedent to provide for commercial
development on the site and it was stated some would like to see public use of the property.
The seconder withdrew his second. The motion was again duly seconded.
Member Tobin moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
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Concerns were expressed regarding the Task Force getting into too much detail.
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Upon the vote being taken on the motion to put the existing building to productive use:
Members Bickerstaffe and SaUga voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Magidson, Mazur,
Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Weible, Johnson, Graham and Jewell voted "Nay". Motion failed.
Member Jewell moved that if the City rejects an agreement with the Art Center that the
building be razed and left as open space for no longer than five years. The motion was duly
seconded.
Concern was expressed that this would defeat the purpose of having a Task Force.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Graham and Jewell voted "Aye"; Members
Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Saliga and Johnson voted
"Nay". Motion faned.
Member Magidson moved that if negotiations with the Art Center fall through, the building
be torn down and put to public use and/or parkland. The motion was duly seconded.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Ebersole,
Moss, Tobin, Saliga and Johnson voted ttAye"; Members Weible, Mazur, Graham and Jewell
voted "Nay". Motion carried.
Member Register moved there be an opening of the vista on the south side of the building
in accordance with City Code. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously.
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Member Little moved that in the negotiations there be a provision for a giftshop of a
minimum size of 2,000 square feet. The motion was duly seconded.
Member Tobin moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
Upon the vote being taken regarding the giftshop: Members Weible and Little voted
"Aye"; Members Register, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Ebersole, Moss, Tobin, Saliga,
Jewell and Johnson voted t'Nay". Motion failed.
A statement was made that all museums have giftshops as they need and desire the
revenue.
The Chairman asked if there were any other proposals for use of the 3.8 acres. There was
no further discussion on that topic. The Chairman indicated the Task Force could now consider
motions regarding other issues.
Member Saliga moved that the three basic proposals, razing the building and making it into
a park, razing the building and redeveloping the property and use of the existing structure, along
with all information regarding associated costs to the taxpayers for each option be presented as
a referendum to the Clearwater voters. The motion was duly seconded.
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Mr. Ebersole left the meeting at this time.
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Concerns were expressed regarding this circumventing the work done by the Task Force.
Member Graham moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
Upon the vote being taken regarding submitting the three options to a referendum:
Member Saliga voted "Aye"; Members Little, Register, Bickerstaffe, Moss, Tobin, Jewell,
Magidson, Mazur, Graham, Johnson, Ebersole and Weible voted "Nay". Motion failed.
Member Graham moved to allow the southeast corner of the site to be used by the City
for access between Osceola and Cleveland Street to include closing Drew Street on the west side
of the site and the expansion of Coachman Park. The motion was duly seconded.
A question was raised regarding the advantage of closing Drew Street and it was indicated
the public would not have to cross a street in order to get to the water and it would enhance the
safety of children using the park. Concerns were expressed regarding the impact on traffic if this
is done.
Member Weible moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
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Upon the vote being taken regarding using the southeast corner for access between
Osceola and Cleveland and closing Drew Street: Members Weible, Little, Bickerstaffe, Magidson,
Mazur, Graham, Moss, Tobin, Register and Jewell voted "Aye"; Members Johnson and Saliga
voted "Nay". Motion carried.
The Chairman indicated he would include the votes on the motions in the report and it was
requested the votes from the last meeting (5/14) also be included in that report.
The Chairman presented the minutes of the May 14, 1992, Task Force meeting. Member
Graham moved to approve the minutes as submitted. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
The meeting recessed from 5:22 p.m. to 5:27 p.m.
The Chairman asked if there was any further discussion.
Member Jewell moved that in the event the City accepts the 3.8 acre site for use by the
Art Center that the remaining portion of the bluff, including the Library and Chamber sites, be put
up for redevelopment by private enterprise and the remaining portion of Coachman Park be
extended to the waterfront. The motion was duly seconded.
A concern was expressed that there were two issues in the motion. Mr. Jewell amended
his motion to read "that in the event the City Commission accepts the 3.8 acres for use by the
Arts Center, the remaining portion of the bluff, including the Library and Chamber sites, be put
up for redevelopment by private enterprise". The seconder accepted the amendment.
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Concerns were expressed that the Library should remain where it is.
Concerns were expressed that the bluff area was not really that large and in order for
some development to take place as much of it needed to be made available as possible.
Concern was expressed regarding the donation of the land on which the Library is located.
Member Graham moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
Upon the vote being taken regarding opening the bluff to commercial development:
Members Weible, Register, Mazur, Graham, Jewell and Moss voted "Aye"; Members Little,
Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Saliga, Tobin and Johnson voted "Nay'l. Tie vote, motion failed.
Member Jewell moved that Drew Street be closed south of the turn basin or cul-de-sac
at the Ferry Docks and Coachman Park be extended to the water. The motion was duly
seconded.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Register, Magidson. Graham, Jewell, Moss,
Little, Bickerstaffe, Mazur, Tobin and Johnson voted nAye"; Member Saliga voted "Nay". Motion
carried.
Member Little moved that the City enter into negotiations to purchase the Chamber
property and provide the Chamber with two acres at the East End project at a rental rate of a
(~ dollar a year. The motion was duly seconded.
Concerns were expressed that this was getting outside the area of the Task Force.
Concerns were also expressed regarding the motion being too detailed.
Mr. Little amended his motion to read nthat the City enter into negotiations with the
Chamber of Commerce to acquire their property". The seconder accepted the amendment.
A question was raised regarding whether or not the Chamber would be willing to sell the
property. Mr. Pete Woodham, Executive Director ofthe Chamber, was present and indicated they
were willing to consider sale of their property in order to help enhance development of the bluff.
Questions were raised regarding what price would be considered.
Member Magidson moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
Upon the vote being taken regarding entering into negotiations with the Chamber:
Members Weible, Little, Register, Mazur and Moss voted nAye"; Members Bickerstaffe, Magidson,
Graham, Jewell, Saliga, Johnson and Tobin voted 'INay". Motion failed.
A question was raised regarding whether or not the Task Force should recommend that
if negotiations fall through with the Art Center that the Chamber and the Art Center enter into
negotiations. It was indicated this was outside of the scope of the Task Force.
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Member Magidson moved that whatever recommendation is accepted by the CRA and/or
City Commission that it be the subject of a referendum. The motion was duly seconded.
Member Weible moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
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The Chairman indicated there were other items to be considered. Those are: how to do
the report, whether or not the property should stay in the ownership of the Community
Redevelopment Agency (CRA) and if the recommendation should go to referendum.
Membar Jewell moved that the property stay within the ownership of the CRA. The
motion was duly seconded.
Questions were raised regarding the benefits of the property staying with the CRA. It was
indicated there are restrictions in the Charter that do not bind the CRA. Concerns were expressed
that if the property stayed with the CRA, a referendum would not be required.
Member Weible moved to call the question. The motion was duly seconded and carried
unanimously.
Upon the vote being taken: Members Weible, Register, Mazur, C'raham, Jewell, Moss and
Tobin voted" Aye"; Members Little, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Saliga and Johnson voted "Nay".
Motion carrIed.
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Upon the vote being taken: Members Little, Bickerstaffe, Magidson, Mazur, Graham,
Jewell, Saliga and Johnson voted "Aye"; Members Weible, Register, Moss and Tobin voted
"Nay". Motion carried.
The Chairman questioned how to report to the City Commission and indicated he would
like to discuss it with them at the worksession of June 1 st and at their meeting of June 4th.
Member Magidson moved to recognize the hard work and effort put into the Task Force
by the Chairman and that he be the spokesperson before the CRA. The motion was duly
seconded.
It was stated that people wishing to provide additional information should submit it to the
Chairman in writing.
Upon the vote being taken: the motion carried unanimously.
The Chairman requested the Task Force review the proposed format for the Final Report
before the meeting tomorrow at 3:00 p.m.
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ATrEST: Q~~Z
Maas Ci Clerk
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The meeting adjourned at 6:05 p.m.
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