03/12/1992 (2)
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.... .... MAAS BROTHERS
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. TASKFORCE
MINUTES
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HAAS BROTHERS TASK FORCE HEETING
March 12, 1992
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Members present:
Ed Mazur, Chairperson
Jim Graham, Vice-Chairperson (arrived 4:07)
John B. Johnson
Phoebe Moss
Robert Kennedy
Wray Register
Bob Bickerstaffe
David Little
Joshua Magidson
Jackie Tobin
Stephen 5aliga .
Oebra Weible (arrived 5:07)
Nancy Simmons (arrived 4:09)
Absent:
Hal Ebersole
Gregory Jewell
Also Present:
Michael J. Wright, City Manager
Cynthia E. Goudeau, City Clerk,
The meeting was called to order at 4:04 p.m. at the Clearwater Main
Library.
ITEM #2 - Approval of Minutes
Member Magidson moved to approve the minutes of February 13, 1992 and
February 27, 1992. The motion was duly seconded and carried unanimously.
ITEM #3 - Presentation: Georoe Athens - Moonbeams
David Chianco, Attorney for George Athens and Moonbeams, stated they are
recommending the use of Moonbeams for the Maas Brothers property. A packet of
information had been distributed to the Maas Brothers Task Force previously. He
stated Moonbeams wi 11 provide a viable tenant for Maas brothers as well as
provide teens with an alternative to cruising. The facility could also provide
banquet and ballroom facilities. Mr. Chianco reviewed Mr. Athens background
stating he is a graduate from FSU Business School in hotel management, and he has
operated many facilities in the country.
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In response to a question regarding how much of the building the Moonbeams
establishment would need, it was indicated it would need 15-25,000 square feet.
Mr. Athens indicated his motivation is concern for the area and teens, and
the Moonbeams facility is one he is proud of which provides a non-alcoholic
facility for teen activity.
In response to a question, Mr. Athens indicated the previous Moonbeams was
open for two years and, when it was closed, was quite popular. Closure was due
to complications with the owner of the shopping center in which the establishment
was locate.
In 'response to a question regarding what rental rate Mr. Athens would
foresee paying, he indicated it would depend on the facility and what it offered;
but he envis ioned $3-4.00 per square foot. In response to a quest ion, Mr. Athens
indicated he was not interested in taking over the restaurant facility in the
Maas Brothers bUilding.
A question was raised regarding parking ,needed, and Mr. Athens indicated
the City Code required six to seven (6-7) spaces per 1,000 square feet. He
stated they would need additional parking on friday and saturday nights.
Questions were raised regarding whether or not Mr. Athens would be willing
to do the renovations needed in the building, and he indicated he would be able
to do some of them.
Concerns were raised regarding liability insurance in the parking lot, and
Mr. Athens indicated that would be provided, and the lots would be patrolled by
off-duty law enforcement officials. He also indicated the individuals entering
the faci 1 ity have to pass through severa 1 check points prior to actua lly
entering.
A question was raised regarding why the Maas Brothers site was chosen, and
Mr. Athens indicated it seemed to be the most reasonable site, however it was not
the only one.
Discussion ensued regarding the ability to establish this facility in
another location along Cleveland Street, and it was indicated parking would be
a pre:blem.
A question was raised regarding how long of a lease Mr. Athens would want,
and he indicated at least 20 years.
In response to a question regarding how this establishment would compare
with the current non-alcoholic teen facility called Off Limits, Mr. Athens
indicated that, when the Moonbeams facility was opened in another location, it
had 95% of the business.
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t~ ITEM - Police Report Reqardina Maas Brothers Buildina Investiqation
Included in the packet of material to the Maas Brothers Task Force is a
Police Report from an investigation done of the Maas Brothers Building. The City
Clerk reported that Mr. 5aliga had reported to her a phone call that may have
been a threat regarding the security of the Maas Brothers site. She notified the
Police; they did an investigation of the property and found there was nothing
amiss. Extra police patrols are being done in this area.
She further reported staff is researching additional information regarding
what is needed to make the building useable in terms of repairs and costs.
Mr. 5aliga indicated he received the call anonymously one evening and took
it to be a threat to the property.
ITEM #4 - Position Statements
It was suggested the Task Force get a feel for a preliminary idea of what
the majority of the Task Force feels shou ld be done with the property. A
suggest i on was a 1 so made that the commi ttee d i v i de into groups and make
presentations.
Mr. Magidson stated he felt it was in the best interest of the City to have
a park in this location. and breaking down into groups would be a waste of time.
~~ Discussion ensued regarding whether or not development should take place
t.~1 on top of the bluff, or whether it should be a park.
It was suggested discussion return to the initial concept and that each
member briefly state what they currently feel should be done on the property.
Mr. Johnson indicated he felt the building should be demolished, and the
property made into a park. He stated at a later time. consideration for other
uses could be made.
Mr. 5aliga indicated he did not feel a City park would be used; he did not
feel Drew Street should be closed to take the park to the waterfront. He stated
his position is provided in the paper he submitted at the last Task Force
meeting. He stated what needs to be done is to provide something for the most
people. and he felt two viable uses were the art center and Moonbeams
recommendations. He stated both of these could be done with very few dollars
expended.
Mrs. Moss stated she did not feel a park would bring people downtown. She
felt the City should advertise for developers to see what they suggest should be
done with the property to include the entire bluff. She stated the Moonbeams
facility would be good if it could be worked in. She indicated concern regarding
the release of the East End Project RFQ. feeling it would be detrimental to
development of Maas Brothers. She reiterated she would like to see the property
developed. and to add the current parking to the parkland.
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Mrs. Tobin indicated she was leaning toward the Arts Council taking the
building. She did not feel downtown would become a retail facility; and she did
not see that increased parkland would be used.
Mr. Graham stated he felt the City had a viable ability to create a retail
atmosphere, and the upper portion of the bluff should be put out to developers.
Mr. Bickerstaffe indicated he was waiting to see if there was an ability
to use the existing building.
,Mr. Little indicated he felt the committee should keep an open mind, and
there is a need to explore a lot more ideas. He did not feel the park was
viable. He stated he wished to hear from staff regarding how much parkland we
already have. He has questions for the Art Center, and the only way to get these
answers is to go out and ask. He suggested the committee break up into groups.
Mr. Bickerstaffe reiterated this site is the only park site the City has
on the waterfront.
Mr. Kennedy indicated he felt the City should go out for RFQs as it did on
the East End Project, and that commercial and not for profit entities could
submit proposals. He did not feel the RFQ should limit development to the bluff,
while as a practical matter it would probably would be. He felt that during the
RFQ process there should be an interim use for the building, and he suggested a
trial of using the parking area as a beach transportation hub be pursued.
Mrs. Register indicated she felt there was a need for an auditorium in
downtown: however, she was not sure the Maas site was the place for it. She does
support closing Drew Street: and if the building has to come down because of the
need for part of that corner, she would recommend the Arts Council taking over
the property.
Mrs. Simmons indicated she supports as much green space as possible, and
there needs to be something attractive done with the property as the current Maas
Brothers building is very unattractive. She did feel the cultural arts proposal
would generate the needed aesthetics.
Mr. Bickerstaffe, explained his reasoning behind the need to replace the
auditorium. He stated the previous one was used for conferences and small
conventions, and was on the w~terfront. He stated it should be developed within
the existing footprint.
Mr. Bickerstaffe moved that, considering the condition of the building, an
auditorium should be placed on the existing footprint either in the existing
building or a new building to simulate the auditorium that was previously on the
waterfront, and that this facility should be totally City owned and operated.
The motion was seconded for discussion.
Concerns were expressed regarding this being a final vote. It was
indicated this was just to get an idea of how people are leaning.
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Concerns were expressed there was no objection to a convention center
auditorium, but it was not felt the waterfront was a proper location.
Mr. Bickerstaffe indicated he felt it would be an anchor for the development to
the north, that the prior facility was very profitable and brought in enough
revenue to cover all activities.
Upon the vote being taken, Members Bickerstaffe and Sal iga voted llaye.1I
Members Mazur, Graham, Johnson, Kennedy, Little, Magidson, Moss, Register, Tobin,
Weible and Simmons voted IInay.1I Motion failed.
Mr. Graham moved to direct staff to further investigate to determine the
true cost to bring the building into viable use. The motion was duly seconded.
Discussion ensued regrading the need for this, with several members saying
they felt the building should come down and they did not feel this was time well
spent. Other members stated that while they felt the building did need to come
down, there are questions regarding the viability of using the existing building
that needed to be answered.
(:)
A question was raised regarding whether or not the motion intended to ask
for renovations for a first class operation or minimal use. Mr. Graham indicated
the intent of his motion was to address the minimal and, therefore, he amended
his motion to include that. Therefore, the motion is stated as lIstaff be
directed to further investigate the true cost to bring the building into its
minimal viable usell. The seconder accepted the amendment. Upon the vote being
taken, Members Moss, Register, Tobin, Simmons, Bickerstaffe, Saliga, Mazur,
Graham, Kennedy and Little voted Ilaye.1I Members Weible, Magidson and Johnson
voted IInay.1I The motion carried.
Mr. Little moved that the Task Force adopt the strategy outline submitted
in his March 5th proposal to the Task Force, and there be four sub-committees
that will bring back reports to the full committee, and a final recommendation
will be approved by the committee at its meeting of May 28th. The motion was
duly seconded. ~
Discussion ensued regarding the need to break down into sub-committees and
how this wold be done. Concerns were expressed regarding the committee and staff
having enough time to prepare the reports for the planned meetings, and to ask
for additional input from outside agencies.
It was indicated the Task Force would not sunset at the end of May, but
they were asked to try and finish their work at that time; it can take longer if
need be.
Concerns were expressed that the traffic situation sti 11 needed to be
considered.
In response to a question, the City Clerk indicated the Chamber of Commerce
along with a coalition of other agencies would be making a presentation to the
committee regarding their proposal at the next meeting.
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A question was raised regarding the abi 1 ity to break up into sub-committees
in light of the Sunshine Law. The City Clerk explained that each sub-committee
would be under the same requirements as the full committee in meeting the
Sunshine Law requirements, that is that staff would have to be present to do
minutes, and all meetings would be open to the public. Concerns were expressed
regarding the ability to coordinate this and to have staff available for all sub-
committee meetings.
Mr. Little indicated he wished to adjust his motion, in light of the
requirements of the Sunshine Law, to not require sub-committees.
Further discussion ensued regarding how to handle input to the committee
on the various options.
The seconder withdrew his second, and Mr. Little withdrew his motion.
Mr. Little moved to adopt the format in his letter of March 5, to follow
the outline that would have the topics of discussion as follows: M~rch 26 - open
parkland use, April 9 - existing building uses, April 23 - private redevelopment
of the site, May 14 - public redevelopment of the site for public uses; at the
May 28 meeting, the final recommendation would be reached. The motion was duly
seconded.
Oiscussion ensued regarding the format, and it was indicated presentations
scheduled at the beginning of each meeting will not be limited to the topic
scheduled for that meeting.
Concerns were expressed regarding the ability to obtain input from private
developers.
A concern was expressed that the committee did not need to be going into
this much detail and it was time to start making decisions without additional
input.
Upon the vote being taken, Members Bickerstaffe, Saliga, Mazur, Graham,
Kennedy, Little, Moss, Register, Tobin and Simmons voted "aye.1I Members
Magidson, Johnson and Weible voted "nay." The motion carried.
The Chairman asked for specific questions that the committee wished to have
addressed at the March 26 meeting regarding open parkland. It was requested that
information regarding demolition costs of the building and the parking lot, the
cost to develop the property into a park, whether or not there is a need for more
parkland, how much parkland currently exists in the City, information regarding
the need for the existing tennis courts, and specific operation and maintenance
costs of a park be provided.
It was requested that, when the existing building uses are discussed,
information be provided regarding what would be needed for different types of
uses, i.e. floor loading for a dance facility as opposed to an art gallery.
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In response to a question regarding whether or not the possible use of this
facility as a City. hall would be discussed, it was stated staff would present
pros and cons for that issue at that meeting.
It was requested the Arts Council and Moonbeams be notified regarding, the
discussion for private development, and they need to be sure the building meets
their needs.
Concern was expressed regarding the need for the Task Force members to see
the building again as some members were unable to tour it the last time.
Consensus was to set a tour of the building for 3:00 on April 9 prior to the 4:00
meeting.
A question was raised regarding when would be the appropriate time to get
additional input from the City Attorney. It was indicated it was felt this would
be needed when the Task Force is reaching consensus.
Mr. Magidson expressed his opposition to investigating in such detail,
stating that was the City Commission's job. He stated the committee ;s here to
,recommend to the Commission what they feel is the right thing to do with the
site.
The Chairman indicated he is no different from any other member, except he
can not make a motion. He requested members make motions whenever they feel they
need to get an idea of how the committee feels about a certain topic.
411& ITEM #5 - Adjourn
The meeting adjourned at 6:15 p.m.
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