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I ..:. ~ " ' f ,Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of August IS, 1990. Page 1 Present: John Nicholson, Chairman Olenn Perry, Member Tom Pudelski, Member H. Michael Laursen, Personnel Director Clndy CUman, Personnel Records Specialist Deborah Lally, Personnel Department Nancy Degner, City Nurse Linda Myers, Finance Division Joseph DeSantis, Police Sergeant Louis Kwall, Attorney for Joseph DeSantis Richard McCrea. Attorney for Joseph DeSantis The meeting was caUed to order at 9:36 A.M. / Olenn Perry moved to approve the minutes of the meeting of August I, 1990. duly seconded by Tom Pudelski and carried unanimously. The motion was Nothing has been done with respect to the guidelines and procedures. advised the Committee that a meeting is scheduled for September 4, 1990, at Walk-In Clinic at which the remaindcr of the standards will be reviewed. members to attend in order to provide input. John Nicholson asked if either of the othcr members had any comments to make on the guidelines which he wants the Committee to adopt. Mr. Perry wanted to discuss them before they were approved. Secretary Laursen 10:00 a.m. with the He invited aU the Louis Kwallt attorney, for Ioseph DeSantis, asked if he could have a copy of these guidelines and made' a 'comment concerning the fact that there have never been guidelines before. Mr. Nicholson advised him these have been in the works since May of 1989. Mr. ,Nicholson asked that the provIsIon concerning the Pension Advisory Committee recommending that an employee requesting a disability pension be given a job accommodation be 'removed from the draft. Mr. Perry concurred with this request. Mr. Nicholson stated this is a matter for the bargaining unit to negotiate. Mr. Laursen informed the Commiuee that the issue of light duty was discussed at the bargaining meeting with the IAFF on August 14th and 1here may be some provision for this in the new - contract. Mr. Nicholson also asked that two other items be incorporated into the guidelines: 1) the Committee requires that two meetings are necessary to consider disability pension requests and all members must be present to vote on them and 2) employees who move from non-hazardous duty job classes to hazardous duty positions must work in the hazardous duty job for 20 years to be eligible for early retirement. Linda Myers, Chairman of the Nominating Committee for the election, presented to the Committee for its approval a letter and procedure for nominations which will be sent out to all employees. She advised the Committee that the election will probably be held in latc Septembcr or early October. '~,~ , ....:;' , .'.:':. . ,,": I .~> .: ' .- '>r'~ ' .i' .", :,~~,~'~:'" ,,',,:., ,<,::,::~,:.'!.. 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'. .' i~ ,,' .., J..; ~, ',l'. '. ~ .:} \!. ; t\ Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of August 15. 1990. Page 2 Tom Pudelski moved to approve the procedure. The motion was duly seconded by Glenn Perry and carried unanimously. Mr. Laursen thanked the Committee for its work. With respect to Michael Dnndaneau, Police Communications Operator, Police Deportment, n new letter was received from Dr. Sena which stated that the majority of Mr. Dandaneau's dIsability is a result of the original on-the-job injury. The Committee is stilt waiting for leHers from the other doctors. In regard to the request of Deborah Patterson, Meter Render I, Utilities Finance Division, for n job-connected disability pension, nothing new was received. With respect to the request of John Greiner, Survey Party Chief, De par t m en t. for a job-connected disability pension, another lettcr was Dr. Logue. On August 10; 1990; Mr. Nicholson wrote a lettcr to Dr. Harris information. Public Works received from requesting more Cindy Climan, Personnel Records Specialist, presented Mr. Nicholson with a memorandum concerning the need to correct the pension participation datc for Joseph DeSantis, Pollce Sergeant, Police Department. When he was accepted into the Pension Plan last year, his benefits date was listed as April 3, 1989; when it should have been April 6. 1989. Glenn Perry moved that this be presented to the Trustees for correction. The motion wns duly seconded by Tom Pudelski and carried unanimously. In regard to Mr. DeSantis' request for a job-connected disability pension; Louis Kwan; auorney for Mr. DeSantis. addressed the Committee. Mr. KwalJ statcd he had not intended to become involved in this situation but was appearing to set the record straight on several issues that arose at the last meeting. One issue is whether or not Mr. DeSantis qualifies and the other is the effective date of his participation. Mr~ Kwall explained to the Committee that the question of Mr. DeSantis applying for a disability pension first arose in May of this year when Mr. Kwall became aware of Mr. DeSantis' emotional state and advised him to see Dr. Skotko who had examined him several years earlier when he was trying to retain his State cenification as a police officer. Mr. DeSantis was seen by Dr. Skotko who then sent him to Dr. Gonzales; application for pension was made thcreafter. As to the question about the pension pay back, Mr. Kwall stated he made several attempts to contact the City Attorney regarding a procedure to pay back the monies but never received a return phone call. He stated there was no relationship between the length of time involved in trying to establish a procedure and the application for disability pension as indicated by Mr. Nicholsonts comments that this was staged which were made at the last meeting. Mr. NichoJson addressed a few issues raised by Mr. Kwall. He stated this has been going on since at least October of 1989 when Dan Deignan. Assistant Director of Administrative ServicelFinance Director, wrote a letter which proposed a method of pay back for Mr. DcSantis. Mr. Nicholson said that the City Attorney's failure to return Mr. Kwall's phone calls had .. nothing to do with this situation because he was told before to come up with some plan to repay the money if he intended to do so. Mr. KwaU stated the real issue here is whether or nOl Mr. DeSantis qualifies for a pension and the date that is appropriate. Mr. Nicholson advised him that the correct date is the date he was reinstated since he has, no prior participation because he did not repay the money. l , 1 I l j l Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Commhtec Meeting of August IS. 1990. Page 3 Mr. Nicholson stated the copy of the lelter from' Dr. Skotko ((hat was illegible) thot was requested at the last meeting had been received. He also advised the Committee that Mr. DeSantis asked that he receive the name of anyone who reviews or cOplcs any document that is submitted concerning his request for pcnsion. Mr. Nicholson advised Mr. DeSantis that the Commiuee had no control over this. Mr. Nicholson stated he was not able to make a decision today because he needs time to review the tetter that was received today. Mr. KwaU stated the doctors would be willing to appear in person to testify if necessary. Mr. Nicholson stated he would like to speak with Mr. DeSantis' supervisors to find out more information and also would like to send him for an independent medical examination (IME). Mr. Kwall questioned what the City's relationship was to the Pension Advisory Committee. Mr. Nicholson advised him the Committee uses the Chy's pre~employment physical to determine pension panicipation. worker's compensation files for review jf necessary. and the City Nurse as needed. Mr. Kwall asked why Miles Lance. Assistant City Altorney. was in attendance. Mr. Lance explained that the City Attorney's Office represents City managemcnt; however, he answers legal questions that may arise during the course of the meetings. but he does not advise the Committee on how to make decisions. Mr. Nicholson stated the Committee has used independent counsel in the past when nccessary. Mr. Kwall stated he would have no objection to using either Mr. Hubbard or Mr. Pope if the Committee decides it needs independent counsel to decide this case. Discussion ensued as to whether the Commiuee would like Mr. DeSantis to have an IME. The City Nurse will give Mr. DeSantia a list of three doctors from which to choose and she will schedule the appointment. Glenn Perry moved that Joseph DeSantis be sent for an IME. The motion was duly seconded by Tom Pudelski and carried unanimously. Mr. Perry advised the other members that he would not be available for the first meeting in September. Mr. KwaU asked how the Committee will intcf\1icw the other people in this case. After some discussion it was decided this would be heard at the regular meeting on September 19tb when all members expect to be present. Mr. Laurscn will notify Captain Kaminskas. Sgt. Githens, Lt. Hardman. and Sgt. Sibbert. The Committee members agreed it was not necessary to have Mr. DeSantis. doctors here for the meeting sincc they had their letters. Mr. Kwall questioned Mr. Pudelski about statements he allegedly made to other Police Officers to the effect that he would never grant Mr. DeSantis a disability pension. He asked that Mr. Pudelski disqualify himself from this case and another member be selected to decide this case. Mr. Pudelski addressed these comments by stating he has not always agreed with every decision the Committee has made but he has always made a fair determination and he can do so in this instance despite any personal feelings he may have. Mr Nicholson and Mr. Perry stated for the record they had no objection to Mr. Pudclski remaining on the Committee. Mr. Nicholson stated this situation appcared similar to the one that occurred when Mr. DeSantis was to appear before the Civil Service Board. Mr. Kwall agreed and stated the snme thing happened when the Civil Service Board adopted rules of procedure that had never existed ',before and the Pension Advisory Committee now is attempting to do the same thing. Mr. Nicholson advised him again that the Committee has been trying to adopt these procedures since May of 1989 and he objected to Mr. Kwatl's inference. Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of August IS, 1990. Page 4 Mr. Laursen adviscd the Committee that Debbie BaBey, Payroll Services Manager, sent out 29 new Pension Entitlement Forms and 21 were returned. These wlll be copied and sent to the Committee members. Mr. Laursen stated some of the pcnsioners were upset about having to do this form again, and Ms. Bniley explained to them that this was initiated by the Trustees and the Pension Advisory Committee. Mr. Nicholson apologized for any nack Ms. Bailey may have taken on behalf of the Commince. The meeting recessed from 10:46 A.M. to 10:52 A.M. Tom Pudelski read the name(s) of the foHowing cmployce(s) to be accepted into membership in the Pension Plan: Date of Etnploymcnt Pension BUilt Dnte James Pyatt. Jr.. Pol. Com. Oper. Trainee Karl Pople. Pol. Com. Oper. Trainee James Nungester. San. Heavy Equip. Oper. Roland Manens, Traffic Eng. Assistant Police Police Pub. Wks./San. Pub. Wks./Trans. 8-6-90 8-6-90 8-13~90 8-13-90 8-6-90 8-6-90 8-13-90 8-13-90 Tom Pudelski moved that the employee(s) listed above be accepted into the Pension Plan. motion was duly seconded by Glenn Perry and carried unanimously. ..r., '~~, " ~~:. . ,~~ . ' ~;"~ ' Mr. Nicholson stated for the record that while the tape was off the Committee suggested that -r:J" Nancy Degner send to the doctor chosen by Mr. DeSantis a copy of his job description and the ~:,: name of his supervisor which is similar to what was done in the case of John Greiner. :~' ';1tO For the record. Mr. Pudelski addressed the accusations made by Mr. Kwall concerning his {':" '( remarks to fellow officers that he would never approve a disability pension for Mr. DeSantis. i;\ ' ,Mr. Pudelski stated his comments were made only in response to questions or statements made "'I',':, 'to him by other Police Officers stating give him a pension just so he can shaft the City and give him the pension just to get rid of him. "My statement was that I would never approve a pension for Sgt. DeSantis for that. Those statements made by Lou Kwall were taken out of context and not totally accurate. However, the part that he said I said I would never approve a pension for Sgt. DeSantis was somewhat true in this context referring to the other officers' statements about giving Sgt. DeSantis a pension just so he can shaft the City or get even with the City and only in that context.'t Mr. Pudelski told the other members they could change their minds , 'about baving him sit on the Committee if they wanted to do so. Mr. Nicholson and Mr. Perry ,; again stated they have no objection to his remaining on the Committee. ,Mr. Perry asked if the Committee wanted Mr. DeSantis to get a copy of the minutes and the ~'.'.. Mr. Nicholson asked that Mr. DeSantis be given a copy of the minutes and. if he wanted a .ti;~', ,: of it, he could ask for the tape. ~' .., :~ '~ ~ " Glenn Perry moved that the meeting be adjourned. The motion was duly seconded by Tom Pudclski and carried unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 10;57 A.M. Committee The tape. copy