08/02/1989
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Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Comminee Meeting of August 2. 1989.
Page I
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John Nicholson. Chairman
Glenn Pcrry. Member
Tom Pudelskl. Member
H, Michael Laursen. Personnel Director
Deborah Lally. Personnel Department
Cynthia Climnn. Personnel Department
Carole Greiner, Acting Risk Manager
Nancy Degner. City Nurse
Miles Lance, Assistant City Attorney
Charles Kettell. Police Officer
James Moore. Police Officer
Cary' Singletary. Attorney for Officer Kettell
William Harvey. Firefighter
Douglas Flaute. CIGNA Financial Services
Timothy Kip. CIGNA Financial Services
The meeting was called to order at 9:44 A.M.
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Douglas Flaute 'and Timothy Kip. representatives from CIGNA Financial Services. addressed the
Committee concerning the diversification of the Pension Plan investments. After some
discussion. Mr. ,Flaute and Mr. Kip were advised to contacL Dan Deignan in the Finance
Department to discuss this matter since Lhe Finance Department handles the investments and
the Finance Director is the fund administrator.
Since the recent election. a new chairman had to be appointed. Tom Pudelski moved that
John" Nicholson remain the Chairman for the next year. The motion was duly seconded by
'Glenn Perry and carried unanimously.
Glenn Perry moved to approve Lhe minutes of the meeting of July 19, 1989. The motion was
'duly' seconded by Tom Pudelski and carried unanimously.
The Committee again considered the request of Charles Kettell, Pollee Officer. Police
De par t men t. ,for a job-connected disability pension. Cary Singletary, attorney for
,Officer Kettell, adopted the remarks he had made at the last meeting concerning this matter.
He received a new letter from Dr. Gonzalez which was previously provided to the Committee.
Mr. Singletary had received from Mr. Laursen copies of opinions from the City's Legal
Department concerning the additional 15% payment for children born after an employee starts
receiving a pension. Discussion ensued concerning this matter. At the conclusion. it was
determined that 1) in accordance ,with these legal opinions, employees have always been given
the 15% additional payment and Charles Kettell should be treated in the same manner; and 2) if
the current Committee disagrees with this interpretation, a review of this matter may be
necessary to determine if this procedure should be amended. ,( Chairman Nicholson suggested
the City consider changing this in a future referendum. Mr. Laursen reminded, the Committee
that the Pension Plan is a negotiable issue that must be bargained with the unions.
Tom Pudelski moved that Charles Kettell be granted a job-connected disability pension,
effective on a date to be determined. based on Officer Kettell's disability that resulted from
on-the-job cix-cumstances which is described as post traumatic stress disorder, said disability
a
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Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of August 2, 1989.
Page 2
making him permanently unable to perfono his job and documented by medical stalements of
Dr. Harry Spaulding. dated January 30, 1989; Dr. A. G. aonznlel~ dated May 11, 1989, and Juty 19,
1989; and Dr. Walter Afield, dated May 17, 1989. and May 19, 1989. The motion was duly seconded
by Glenn Perry and carried unanimously.
With respect to the request of Donald Ward, Firefighter, Fire Department, for l1
job-connected disability pension, Carole Greiner. Acting Risk Manager. presented a list of
doctors to Mr. Singletary. who also represents Mr. Ward. At the Committee's request, Mr Ward is
to choose a doctor who will perfonn an independent medical examination (IME).
Mr. Singletary advised the Committee that Mr. Ward had contacted Worker's Compensation
about its decision to stop payments based on one of the doctor's letters. After Mr. Ward
explained the situation to Worker's Compensation. it revoked its cllrlicr decision and reinstated
the benefits.
No action will be taken on this matter until the meeting of September 20. 1989. since all three
members will not be available until that date.
--
Michael Dandaneau, Police Communications Operator, Pollee Department, and
William Harvey, Firefighter, Fire Department, who both have applied for
job-connected disability pensions. were provided with lists of doctors io choose one to perfonn
an IME at the Committee's request.
William Harvey was present and advised the Committee that all the doctors he has seen so far he
was sent to by the City. He has not had the opportunity before to choose his own doctor. and he
has no objection to receiving an IME. Mr. Nicholson advised Mr. Harvey that although the
letters received from Dr. Barrett and Dr. Abrahamsen are acceptable. it would be in his best
interest to see another doctor.
Secretary Laursen stated for the record that the decision to send these employees for IME's is
the Pension Advisory Committee's decision and not that of the City itself.
Joseph DeSantis) Police Sergeant, Police Department. addressed the Committee
concerning the recent memorandum he received from Mike Laursen. This memorandum
advised Sgt. DeSantis that the Committee would not approve him for pension until he' had
certain, items rechecked because the Doctor's Walk-In Clinic had not approved him.
Sgt. DeSantis was concerned because according to him this was the first wriuen communication
he had received concerning his pension participation and the physical examination.
Reference was made to a previous memorandum from Mr. Laursen advising Sgt. DeSantis that
he' would have to have a physical before being accepted into the Pension Plan. Sgt. DeSantis
commented on the fact that he may not be receiving all of his mail. He had no idea he was
being examined for pension until he was ordered by the Chief to go for a stress EKG before the
Committee would approve him. Sgt. DeSantis stated he had seen his family physician and was
advised that his cholesterol was lower, his triglycerides were half the amount they were at the
Clinic, and the test for occult blood was negative. ,
Sgt. DeSantis voiced his objection to the fact he had been back to work for five months and had
not yet been accepted back into the Pension Plan. He stated his attorney had been in touch
with the City AUomey's office after he had received his first paycheck and pension was nOl
deducted.
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Proceedlngs of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of August 2. 1989.
Page 3
Mr. Nicholson advised him that since he had withdrawn his pension contributions when he
was terminated, he needed 11 new physical before he could be reinstated in the Pension Plnn.
Sgt. DcSnntls stated he was told to withdrnw his monies. In addition, since he was wrongfully
terminated. he was not a new employee and, therefore, should be reinstated whh his original
pension date.
It was stated that employees are not required to withdraw their. pension contributions upon
termination or resignation.
Sgt. DeSantis compared his situation to that of Officer Kettell who had been terminated and later
had his tcnnintuion overturned. Officer Kettell was allowed to return the monies he had
withdrawn with payment of interest for the period the money was not In the Pension Plan. He
wa.s advised that his situation was different in that his tcnnination was changed to a three-year
and eight-month suspension whereas Officer Kettell was reinstated with no disciplinary action.
He was also advised that Officer Kellen was approved for pension by the Committee at that time.
Sgt. DeSantis questioned why he was being treated differently than all other officers.
Tom Pudclski stated that when employees arc suspended it is usually for a short period of time
and physical condition does not change significantly; however, after more than three years.
there is a possibility it would change.
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Sgt. DeSantis' request is to be reinstated to the Pension Plan with his original effective date. He
is willing to repay the monies he withdrew with interest for the period of time the monies were
not in the fund.
If the monies arc repaid with interest from June 14. 1985, to the date he was reinstated. the
pension participation date would be March 14, 1977. The question remains as to whether or not
Sgt. DeSantis will be required to work for three years and eight months beyond the 20.year
eligibility period for hazardous duty positions. There was some argument among the Committee
members as to whether or not Sgt. DeSantis should be given credit for the period of the
suspension. Mr. Nicholson and Mr. Pudelski feel that credit should not be given for this period.
Mr. Perry disagreed with this because other employees who are suspended do \ not have the
period of suspension added to the amount of time they must work to be eligible to start
receiving a pension.
After more discussion, it was decided that the first step would be for Sgt. DeSantis to present
documentation from his doctor that his medical problems are corrected so he can be accepted
into the Pension' Plan. The Finance Department will prepare a computation of how much
money is owed. The eligibility question can be decided at that time.
A lengthy discussion ensued concerning other unusual situations that required actions by the
Committee and the Trustees that were exceptions to the general rule; namely, Steve Zimmennan
and Larry Dean. Steve Zimmerman was terminated and withdrew his contributions. His
termination was later overturned and in accordance with a settlement. the City approved
partial credit for" Mr Zimmennan's service based on the City's contributions. Larry Dean was a
Police Officer who resigned and vested his pension. He later returned as a Firefighter and was
readmitted to the Pension Plan with a new effective date. He now has two periods of creditable
service.
Mr. Nicholson stilted the Committee is trying to incorporate some of these items into the written
guidelines. Mr. Nicholson requested an opinion from the City Attorney concerning
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Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Commlttce Meeting of August 2. 1989.
Page 4
Joseph DeSantis nnd Larry Dean. Miles Lancc, Assistant City Attorney, advised the Commiltee to
establish a new policy ror dealing with these situations.
Mr. Laursen advised the Committee that the Civil Service Rules have specific provisions
whereby employees may withdraw their resignation, but the Pension Plan has no such
provisions.
The Committee discussed the request from Lois Muroon! Library Department. to be
admitted to the Pension Plnn. Ms. Maroon is over the age of 4S and submitted an "Application
for Admittancc to the City of Clearwater's Employee's Pension Plan" with addcd language. She
needs to be scheduled for a physical before she can be accepted. It was the general impression
that the basis for her submitting a revised form was to be sure she didn't waive any of her
rights in light of the pending lawsuit.
The Committee considered the request of Susan Gryncewlcz, Police Communications
Operator, Police Department, for a job-connected disability pension. Ms. Gryncewicz
injured her hand firing a weapon while attending the police academy as a Police Recruit.
After being injured. she voluntarily demoted back to a Police Communications Operator. She
has since been terminated but can still apply for a pension. No letters from the doctors have
been received so no action could be taken on this matter. Mr. Nicholson stated the Committee
would, need to review her worker's compensation file.
Mr.' Laursen advised the Committee that the Trustees had not yet discussed the Committee's
guidelines and procedures. He will follow up and report back to the Committee.
The Committee received a copy of a memorandum from the City Manager in which he
recommended that the Pension Advisory Committee not be permitted to hire independent legal
counsel. The Committee wants a letter written on its behalf to the Trustees advising them that
they want independent counsel for the pros outlined by Mr. Laursen in his memorandum and
those of Glenn Perry. Mr. Laursen wilJ do this and advise the Committee when the Trustees will
address this issue.
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Discussion ensued concerning those employees who were not approved by the Committee at the
the last meeting due to various medical problems that needed to be rechecked. The Committee
was advised that since an of these employees are Police Officers or Police Recruits, in
accordance with an agreement that was signed many years ago they arc not covered by Social
Security. If they are not accepted for pension, they must be 1) laid off or 2) continue to work
without contributing to either plan.
Ms. Greiner and Mr. Laursen were concerned with the fact that these employees have been
approved for pension by the doctors. The Committee should not make medical judgments that
override the doctors' opinions. It was suggested that a set of standards may need to be
established so the examining physicians know what things will make an employee
unacceptable for participation in the Pension Plan.
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Police
Police
Police
Police
Police
Pub. Wks.IWPC
Parks & Rec.
Police
Police
Pub. Wks./San.
Adm. Ser./Finance
Marine
Adm. Ser./Finance
Li braries
Libraries
Libraries
Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of August 2, 1989.
Page S
Mr. Laursen suggested they be accepted for pension and each one sent a memorandum advising
them to seek a family physician for whatever medical condition they have.
Olenn Perry read the name(s) of the following employee(s) to be accepted into membership in
the Pension Plan:
Wayne Millen, Police Officer
Robyn Bastin, Police Recroit II
Peter Tsagaratos, Police Recruit II
Jimmy Cabaniss, Police Officer
Karin Bennell, Police Recruit I
,Peter Rullo, WWTP OperatorfI'rainee
Mary Plesinski, Staff Assistant I
Gary Marx, Police Recruit I
Richard Ruby, Police Recruit II
James Cliea\um, San. Heavy Equip. Oper.
Joan Wright, Accountant I
Jerome Powell, Marine Fac. Operator
Robert Kretzmer, Accounting Clerk III
Rosemary Hurd, Librarian I
Larry Hamrell, Librarian II
Yvonne Gorden, Library Clerk
Dale of
Employment
Pens I on
EIi~. Dille
6-7-89
6-7-89
6-21-89
6-7-89
6-21-89
7.24-89
6.26-89
6-21-89
7-3-89
10-13-80
6.6-74
10-9-80
1-14-80
10-22-79
11-3-86
11-23-87
6-7-89
6-7-89
6-21-89
6-7-89
6-21-89
7-24-89
6-26-89
6-21-89
7-3-89
6-15-89
6-30-89
6-28-89
7-6-89
6-21-89
6-21-89
6-26-89
Glenn Perry moved to accept into membership the sixteen (16) employees listed above. The
motion was duly seconded by Tom Pudelski and carried unanimously with the recommendation
that those with medical problems be advised to see a doctor.
Glenn Perry moved that 10hn Robertson, Sanitation Equipment Operator, Sanitation Division,
a,i1d, James Cooper, Wastewater Treatment Plant Operator Trainee, Water Pollution Control
Division, be denied pnnicipation in the Pension Plan. Mr. Cooper has hiSh blood pressure and
Mr. Robertson has uncontrolled diabetes. The motion was duly seconded by Tom Pudelski and
'carried unanimously.
Mr. Laursen thanked Carole Greiner for handling the election. She advised the Committee she
would not do it again due to the amount of criticism she received from various employees. She
also sugges'ied the Committee may want to consider a different manner of handling the next
election. She suggested the City Clerk may be able 10 assist the Committee in the future. The
Committee asked that City Clerk be invited to attend the meeting of September 20. 1989. to
,discuss this with the Committee.
Tom Pudelski moved that the meeting be adjourned. The motion was duly seconded' by
Glenn Perry and carried unanimous . The meeting adjoumed at 12:13 A.M.
Respectfully s~itted,
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H. Michael Laursen
Personnel Director and
'Secretary. Pension Advisory
Committee