06/09/1987
ProceedIngs of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of June 9, 1987.
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""rl' Present:
Charles Dunn, Chairman
DavId Krieger, Member
John, Nicholson, Member
H. Michael Laursen, Personnel Director
Deborah Lally, Personnel Department
Miles Lance, Assistant City Attorney
Nancy Degner, City Nurse
Tina Wilson, Payroll Services Manager
Walter Kosiba, Police Department
Douglas Carey, Police Department
Cary Singletary, Attorney for Kosiba, and Carey
William Sizemore, Attorney for the City
Eddie Griffin, Pollee Officer
The meeting was called to order at 1 :07 P.M.
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David Krieger moved to approve the minutes of the meeting of May 26, 1987. John Nicholson stated their was
,a'dlscrepancy In the minutes. He objected to the paragraph dealing with Mr. Sizemore's remarks concerning
the: Trustees having settled the question of law with regard to the presumption under Chapter 185.
',':", Mr. Nicholson stated his opinion Is that the Issue has not been settled. Mr. NIcholson was advised by the other
:',:.:., ; members that this paragraph only refers to Mr. Sizemore's comments. He requested that the minutes of this
<,.".,,'e... meeting reflect he does not agree that the presumption does not apply.
;,j~Dav1d 'Krleger moved 10 approve the minutes of the meeting of May 26, 1987. The motion was duly seconded by
:;.:",' John NIcholson and carried unanimously.
, "David' Krieger read the names of the following eight (8) employees to be approved for membership in the
, Penslon Fund:
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Date of
Employment
,:Pamela Anthony. Meter Reader I
" Thomas Jensen, Survey Aide I
"Robert Powers, WWTP Operator C
. ROger Duncan, Tradesworker II
Patricia Carrier, Secretary I
Shannon 8rady, Maint. Worker I
,BenjamIn Bridges, Itl, Matnt. Wkr. I
Janet Jenkins, Public Info. Rep. I
Utilities
Public Works/Eng.
PubUc Works/WPC
Cent. Ser./Bldg. & Malol.
Parks & Ree.
Pub. WksJPub. Ser.
Parks & Rec.JNursery
City Clerk
10-6-86
5-26-87
5-21-87
5-18-87
6-1-87
5-18-87
6-1-87
5-18-87
Pension
Eljg. Date.
5-6-86
5-26-87
5-21-87
5-18-87
6-1-87
,5-18-87
6-1-87
5-18-87
" John Nicholson moved to accept for membership In the Pension Fund the eight (8) employees listed above. The
, moUonwas,duly seConded by David Krieger and carried unanImously.
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" " Chairman Dunn stated he had received a letter from Robert Noonan requesting a non-job-connected
dlsablllty pension rather than the job-connected he originally requested. Secretary Laursen Slated he had
;' v ,spokeri1o Mr. Noonan after this leUer was sent and advised him to come to this meeting. Chairman Dunn stated
;:'(0':' the letters he has are Incorrect no matter what type of disability Mr. Noonan is requesting. Until the proper
~""';' ',' leUers are received, no action wlll be taken.
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Proceedings of the Pension Advisory CommlUee Meeting of June 9, 1987.
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',{ Chairman Dunn stated he had spoken to Frederick Woodard, Firefighter. Mr. Woodard understands his
letters are Insufflclent because they are not from orthopedIc doctors. Mr. Woodard will be seeing two new
doctors withIn the next few weeks and will submit new letters.
With regard to William Hebert, Chairman Dunn advised the other CommlUee members that Cary Singletary,
attorney for Mr. Hebert, received a list of doctors from which to choose one to perform the Independent medical
exam on Mr. Hebert. Mr. Singletary and Mr. Hebert will choose a doctor and an appointment wUl be made.
Chairman Dunn stated his opinion that John Welch's doctors should be deposed before any other action Is
takan on this matter. The doctors to be deposed would be Dr. Machler and Dr. Butler. After reviewing the
letters from these doctors, Mr. Dunn noticed for the first time that they have the same address. Before
anything else Is done, Chairman Dunn advised Mr. Singletary to find out If Ihese doctors are associated In the
same practice. If so, Mr. Welch must see another doctor and submit that doctor's letter to the Committee.
Secretary Laursen questioned who would handle the depositions and whether the cost will be paid by the
Pension Fund. After discussion It was stated that Miles Lance and Cary Singletary would handle the deposfUons.
John Nicholson stated he would like to be present at the depositions.
David Krieger asked whether the doctors could be compelled to gIve these depositions. A concern was raised as
to whether or not the Committee had authority to request depositions. Cary Singletary stated that even though
the pension ordinance does not give the Committee specific authority to take depositions, it does state they must
have all the" facts; one way to get these facts Is to take depositions. It was Mr. Singletary's experIence the
doctors would willingly give the depositions as long as they are compensated for this.
Bill Sizemore, attorney for the City, felt there should be counsel at the deposltlons to represent the Pension
, ,(~ Fund, the applicant (Cary Singletary). and the PensIon Advisory Committee (Miles Lance). They should
'. ',,J construct a record and treat the case like a mini trial so everything Is procedurally correct.
After, further discussion, It was determined Miles Lance and Cary Singletary would check Into the relationship
between Mr. Welch's two doctors and sort the matter out. After the relationship is firmly established, further
action will be taken.
John Nicholson moved to recommend to the Trustees that any expenses Incurred from taking deposlllons be paid
out of the PensIon Fund. The motion was duly seconded by David Krieger and carried unanImously.
With regard to Doug Carey and Walter Kosiba, Chairman Dunn advised lhose present that he would like to
have their doctors deposed and then make a decision based on all the facts.
Charles Dunn, moved to depose Mr. Carey and Mr. Kosiba's doctors and make a decision based on all the
information. The motion was duly seconded by John Nicholson. Charles Dunn and John Nicholson voted "aye;"
David Krieger voted "nay."
Chairman Dunn stated the doctors to be deposed would be Drs. Hampton, Spoto, and Eubanks for Walter Kosiba
and Drs. Williamson, Flshmant and Dharamral for Doug Carey. After some discussion, Mr. Dunn stated the
Comlnes Is wasting time If the other members feel the presumption Is 100 percent and there is really no need
for the depositions.
John Nicholson and David KrIeger were of the opinion taking these deposltlonk would be a waste of time.
Chairman Dunn would like the doctors deposed so all the facts would be known.
Bill Sizemore advised the Committee that If they vote again using the presumption, the Trustees will likely
~,' ().~, remand It to them another time and nothing will be resolved. John Nicholson and David Krieger stated they
'.'> , were basIng their decisions on the medical evidence before them and not the presumption.
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Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of June 9, 1987.
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':' ',..,....... John Nicholson moved to rescind the previous motion and not to depose the doctors. The mollon was duly
;',: seconded by David Krieger. John Nicholson and DavId Krieger voted "aye;" Charles Dunn votsd "nay."
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John Nicholson moved to grant Walter Kosiba a job.connected disability. The mol/on was duly seconded by
David Kriger. John Nicholson Bnd David Krieger votod "aye;" Charles Dunn voted "nay" on the basIs that he
wanted to depose the doctors.
aUl SIzemore asked Mr. Nicholson and Mr. Krieger whether they were basing their decisIon on the
'presumption or on the medical evidence. They both stated they were making a decisIon based on the medical
, evIdence.
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John NIcholson, moved to grant Doug Carey a job-connected disability pension. The mot/on was duly seconded by
David Krieger. BlII Sizemore asked Mr. Nicholson and Mr. Krieger again whether they were basing their
decisions on the presumption or on the medical evIdence. They both stated they were making a decision based on
the medical evidence. John Nicholson and DavId Krieger voted "aye;" Chartes Dunn voted "nay" on the basis he
,wanted to depose the doctors. Charles Dunn then said he was abstaining from voUng on both motions for the
reasons he stated.
'The Committee considered the request of Mtchael petellat for a pension based on years of service. His date
of hire: was 4-17-68, his benefUs date was 4-17.68, and his resignation date Is 4-2~ -B8.
DavId Krieger moved to grant Mr. Petellat a pension based on his years of service. The motion was duly
seconded by John Nicholson and carried unanImously.
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,:',~~" ," " Bill Sizemore once again questioned the Committee as to how they could vote on the medical evidence on
<::,:iw Mr~ Carey ,when, the docto~s letter clearly state they cannot with any degree of medical certainty state his
'i,,;,:....0J:I disability Is job.connected. Mr. Nicholson and Mr. Krieger again stated they made their decisions based solely
M\r.',:: 'on this medical'documentallon.
W:(\>'.'The ~geUng adjourned at 2:10'P.M.
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:t' :', ',:, ' Respectfully submitted,
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