05/26/1987
Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of May 26, 1901.
~'"" 0 Present:
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Charles Dunn. Chairman
David Krieger, Member (Arrived at 10:01 A.M.)
John Nlcholson, Member
H. MIchael Laursen, Personnel Director
Deborah Lally. Personnel Department
Miles Lance, Assistant Clly Attorney
Nancy Degner, City Nurse
Tina Wilson, Payroll Services Manager
Walter Kosiba, Police Department
Douglas Carey, Pollee Department
'John Welch, Police Department
William Hebert. Police Department
Cary Singletary, Attorney for Welch, Kosiba, and Carey
Van Horton, Fire Department
" William Sizemore, Attorney for the City
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!;;',:,:: ':',' :;The meeting was called to order at 9:34 A.M.
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\,;,,:i:; '.;:'John Nicholson moved to approve the minutes of the meeting of May 12. 1987. The motion was duly seconded
~:.." ,:':,:"by Charlie Dunn and carried unanimously.
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\.::::- :; John Nicholson read the names of the following three (3) employees to be approved for membership In the
!i4~:",@):;, ',: '. 'P, enslon Fund:
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'J~::.:/;':,Robert e. Smyth. PolIce Recruit I
it:::'.':,:, ' Stephen E. Singham. Pollee Recruit I
'i:,;<..., ,'~arry D. Dean, Firefighter
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\i-;':, , ,~' 'John Nicholson read the name of Joseph I. Walden. Maintenance Worker I, Parks & Recreation Department,
(:: _ "Who Is ,being denied membership due to high blood pressure. He may reapply when hIs pressure Is below
:i/~,:':,:" ";' 160~90 and he ,has the optlon of seeing his personal phsyclan.
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{-:;;(;:.;: :",~ohn Nicholson mo'ved to accept for membership In the Pension Fund the three (3) employees listed above. The
~~~:;~~:~:~,/:motlon was duly seconded by Charles Dunn and carrIed unanimously.
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tt!:'~~i,"':< John Nicholson moved to deny membershIp In the Pension Fund to the one (1) employee listed above. The
;!'}\'c ;>/,' motion was duly seconded by Charles Dunn and carried unanimously.
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~t(/:~';~: :,:Chalrman Dunn' asked If new letters had been received on Frederick Woodard. He was advised Mr. Laursen had
.}'J'> ~<' sent a letter to Mr. Woodard explaining what was required. No Information has been received to dale.
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,~t,:'~;"',i/;,Chalrman Dunn asked whether any new Information has been received on Robert Noonan. He was advised
~~}:,/;,{~:,'f1othlng was received. Things wlli stay the same until the documentation Is received.
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:t.i:;t)DISCUSSlon ensued concerning Ihe recenl remand by the Panslon Truslees to Ihe Pension Advisory Commlllee
W,:,l -;, with regard to Walter Kosiba and Douglas Carey. Bill Sizemore, Esq.. who has been retained by the City to
!'''':l',.....,,/lssist them In theso particular matters. spoke to the Committee. Mr. Sizemore advise the Committee that the
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Date of
EmploymQnl
Pension
e.lIg. Dam
Police
. Police
Fire
5-11-87
5-11-87
5-11-87
5-11-87
5-11-87
6-11-87
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',' " Proceedings of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of May 26, 1987.
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Trustees had resolved the Issue of law concernIng Chapter 185 and Its application to the City of Clearwater's
Pension Plan. Based on the statute as amended In 1986. the presumption law does not apply to the City's
Pension Plan In that no excise tax funds are contributed to the plan.
John Nicholson voiced his opinion that this presumption does apply to this Pension Plan after reading the rules
, . regarding this chapter. Mr. Sizemore stated the Trustees have asked the Pension Advisory Committee to
reevaluate the case without using the presumption law and It Is the Committee's responsibility to do so.
Committee members stated once again they do not feel the Trustees can overrule their decision.
Chairman Dunn stated he has spoken with people from other municipalities that use the presumptlon. Mr.
Sizemore advised the Committee those munlclpal111es evidently receive state funds which are contributed to
their plans.
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., Van Horton, Firefighter, questioned whether the City's opinion would change If excise tax funds were
'contributed to the plan. Miles Lance, Assistant Clly Attorney, stated the City Finance Director Informed him
that no such funds Bre contributed to the general pension fund. Mr. Lance stated there were rules proposed for
Chapter 185 that would apply the presumption to all pollee officers in this state. However; after a protest by
the Florida League of Cities, these rules were withdrawn. Van Horton Indicated State funds were transferred
Into the general plan when Chiefs Pitts and Goodwin were permitted to transfer from the fire pension to the
general pension.
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~l;::::, Cary Singletary stated he disagrees with the decision of the Trustees. He does not feel their decision is binding
(r:~~A on the Pension AdvIsory Committee. It Is Mr. Singletary's opinion that the City does receive Chapter 185
K;' :<.;.::.1 funds, even though they may go Into the supplemental panslon plan. He further stated the rules have been
F/' ': ' admlnstratlvely litigated and found to be legal rules.
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i./, ": After further discussion. It was decided no vote would be taken until all three members are present to vote.
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f. ,';' ' John Nicholson asked Secretary Laursen to write to the Slate Attorney General to find out 1) who has authority
;~J.,', ,'to recommend disability pensions under the plan; 2) who has the rIght to recommend changes; and 3) whether
;:\:".,' ',' Chapter 185 applies to the City of Clearwater's Pension Plan. Secretary Laursen stated he would write but It
,\: /,': '<Is .unllkely he will receive a response. It was Indicated Mr. Laursen should ask the City Attorney to write for
'~~,:~'~:" '-:the opinion. Cary Singletary stated it could take six to nine months to receive an answer.
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~> ",: ,:, David Krieger arrived at 10:01 A.M.
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,\',:,. '> ' ,Charles Dunn asked that the letter be written in any event. A vote in regard to Walter Kosiba ant;i Douglas
:i< .':: ,Carey was tabled until the next meeting.
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,;,~;:,.": ',' ,Discussion ensued regardIng the remand of John Welch. This matter was remanded to the Pension Advisory
X:~:' .. ': : Committee by the Trustees because they felt the decision was made without adequate informal/on being
:!.~;:" ",:, ;,:" presented to this Committee.
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~;>:..; , ," Chairman Dunn stated the decision to deny Mr. Welch's request for a Job-connected disability pension was
;j~: ':, ,', based on Information received from his doctors and other Individuals Involved tn the case.
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,1:i~/,~'i,JOhn Nicholson 'suggested a hearing should be held with regard to John Welch as the Committee did in another
~f~~::"":'lnstance. Chairman Dunn said it would be a good Idea to bring everyone Involved before the Committee,
f;~~O ,~nCIUdlng the doctors.
1;'~';;:,;~\,',John Nicholson moved that a hearing be held as soon as possible regarding John Welch. The motion was duly
1i;>~'t ,: 'seconded by David Krieger and carried unanimously.
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#hT'T .' 'ProceedingS of the Pension Advisory Committee Meeting of May 2Gt 1987.
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11t::>:,>, ,Charles Dunn advised WIlliam Hebert, who is requesting a Job.connected disability based on his heart
:6~:,::,,' problem, It would take some time to decide on his case since the same Issues apply to him as those In the Carey
'I,\t:,> ;and Kosiba cases. John Nicholson stated WIlliam Hebert should be sent to another doctor for an Independent
\;:/,~' :~,:' medical examination.
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::~~'}<,' ',',David Krieger moved to send WIlliam Hebert to another doctor at the expense of the Pension Advisory
F',:'::,' ,",''Committee. The motion was duly seconded by John Nicholson and carried unanimously. '
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;::.:\; :::, ',Secretary Laursen advised the Committee that Daniel Fausz who was denied membership In the Panlson Plan by
;;;~:~:~ '..:' the Committee last year due to high blood pressure and diabetes Is now legally blind.
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:~':~, ',,',' 'Secretary Laursen raised the question of how to deal with the pension of Larry Dean, who was a former
~:i~', ,.:, ',employee of the Police and Fire Departments and has recently been hired as a Firefighter. Mr. Dean has
~:.',: ."" "already vested his pension. The quest/on was raised as to whether or not he should be given credit for his
.i/ >;',' 'previous years of service to the City of Clearwater. Miles Lance was asked to look Into this matter In order to
1;~:; " ,"come up with a solution.
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~;<::,::~~,;::charles Dunn asked' whether the Pension Advisory Committee had the authority to make a rule that no
}~;;,Y.:S~.:,:..:' Ca~dldates runnIng for ~ seat on the Committee be allowed to solicit votes a1 the polling place.
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i~~~~!;f:~::;'/:: Charles Dunn moved that the people ~ntlng at the poliS advise 1he candidates they can only vote and not
tt(;;~!;;:.?,:'; ,congregate around the polling place. The motion was duly seconded by John Nicholson and carried unanimously.
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t~~~~he rrieetlng adjourned, at 10:36 A.M.
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~'!'\," R"sp~clfully submllled, '/
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~~'~,:i::::,;: < :Ii.' Michael Lau:::!().
~~;';l\:~~~'<Personnel 'Director and .
~i:ti;::~:i;'SecretarY, Pension Advisory Committee
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