09/30/1975 - Special
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Proceedings of Civil Service Board meeting held September 30, 1975.
The Clearwater Civil Service Boar.d met in special session on Tuesday evening~
September 30, 1975 at 7:30 P.M. in the Civil Service Office, City Hall Annex.
Members present:
Tom Chenoweth, Carroll Nall, A. D. Finch, Paul Hatchett and
Joseph Verdi
Visitors (as signed in):
Gardner Smith, Hendrick Oems, Edwin A. Sulek,
Mr. & Mrs. B. L. Garretson, Joe Bergman, Frank Gandert,
Marion Olsen, Mary Drew, Paul Kane, Sue Gruver, Irene Ditto,
Jack Geisel and Clair Kane
Chairman Chenoweth called the meeting to order. He noted that only
Agenda would be properly discussed and asked the Personnel Director
copies of the Agenda to those present. He advised the members that
City Attorney, was present if the Board desired any assistance.
items on the
to distribute
Mr. Tom Bustin"
With respect to Agenda Item #1, Director advised Board that it was not his intention
to set specific dates for any potential hearings, but rather to attempt to determine
the availability of members during October and early November for ease of scheduling
hearings if they are subsequently requested.
Anthony Battaglia, Attorney for Max G. Battle, asked to speak and stated that he was
willing to waive the 30 day rule and request that the hearing be held in November
due to the complexity of the case and because of a major trial he (Battaglia) had
which begins in late October. He indicated that he had) in hand, ready to submit
to the Board) Mr. Battle's request for a Civil Service Board hearing. Chairman advised
him that only Agends'items were appropriately befere the Board at this meeting.
Chairman indicated that the only date on which he would not be available was
October 29th. The question was raised by Mr. Hatchett as to whether the Board was
speaking of evening meetings. After discussion on this question, Mr. Chenoweth,
Mr. Hatchett and Mr. Nail expressed their availability for afternoon or evening
meetings. Member Verdi arrived at this point and was briefed as to the discussion.
He indicated that he could attend afternoon or evenings. Member Finch then arrived
and was advised that discussion was in progress relating to any dates during October
and early November that various members would not be able to attend. Mr. Finch
indicated he could attend any time, any place.
Mr. Finch.related that the Board was pre~supposing a fact that hadn't been established
and questioned whether this iasue was properly before the Board.
With respect to Item il2 ,(Loca.tion), motions were offered that the time of the hearings
be 7:00 P.M. in the Civil Service Office (received no second) and that alternate
afternoon and evening meetings be held (received second) subsequently withdrawn).
Director advised the Board he had requested consideration by the City for Board use
of the City Commission Auditorium or the Municipal Court. He responded to questions
by members' that it would be extremely difficult to conduct afternoon meetings in the
Personnel Office. After considerable debate, Mr. Finch moved and Mr. Verdi seconded
" that hearings be held beginning ,at 7:00 P.M. in the Personnel Office with chairs
provided for the City employees and continue for as long as they last with the Board
to decide' when to stop taking testimony. Motion passed with Mr. Chenoweth voting nay.
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- 2 .:
Civil Service Board Meeting
September 30. 1975
On Item #3. Mr. Finch moved that, notwithstanding the capability of the Personnel
Department Staff to maintain records, the Board hire a Court Reporter to take
a transcript of the hearings. Seconded by Mr. Verdi and carried unanimously.
As debate continued. Mr. NaIl moved that the meeting be adjourned as nothing was
being accomplished. Motion died for lack of second.
On Item #4 (procedure) Director noted that the Civil Service Act gave the Board power
to issue subpoenas and passed out a subpoena form and his proposed procedure for
service of same. At this point discussion turned to the type of procedure or guide-
lines to be followed in proposed hearings and whether hearings would be preliminary
or public, formalized or informal. Mr. Finch advised the Board must follow the
administrative law of the State of Florida. that the attorneys were familiar with such
law.
Chairman asked Mr. Bustin to speak on procedures (Agenda Item #4). Mr. Bustin noted
that the original question on this item as related by the Director was the question of
subpoena. Mr. Finch objected to the City Attorney speaking on this subject. Mr. Nall
then moved that the Board postpone this meeting as the issues should have already been
settled by this time. No second was received. After continued discussion. Mr. NaIl
asked the Chairman to excuse him from the meeting and left.
Chairman asked the City Attorney to give the Board his views on the guidelines.
Mr. Finch objected and stated that the Board cannot change the rules of administrative
law. Chairman noted that while Mr. Finch and other attorneys might be familiar with
such laws and administrative procedure. he was not and this was the purpose of the
discussion. Mr. Finch indicated that the lawyers for both parties (City and employee)
would know this, that he objected to any preview, snd he then moved that the meeting
be disbanded because it was not in line with any administrative procedure that is
recognized in the State of Florida. Motion died for lack of a second. After consid-
erable discussion, the Board. without motion, agreed to use administrative rules of
procedure that are recognized in the State of Florida at this time for any hearings~
On Item #5. Mr. Verdi moved that the Board have separate legal counsel to represent
their individual interests. as well as counseling the Board on procedural matters
during any hearings. Seconded by Mr. Hatchett. Mr. Bustin then indicated to the
Board that his office would provide another attorney (an Assistant City Attorney) to
serve as law officer during any hearings. Mr. Battaglia stated that to avoid conflict
the Board should have its own independent counsel. Motion carried with Mr. Finch
voting nay based solely on the fact that he could not vote affirmatively without
knowing the attorney the Board wou~d hire. Mr. Finch further noted that it would be
unwise to go and hire a lawyer without knowing if he is skilled in administrative law.
He objected for the record stating that we (the Board) had to have someone conversant
with administrative law and that if we don't. he would have to take an appeal himself
because the question was broad and intentional and that he voted against it.
Mr. Battaglia stated that the regulations call for a private and a public hearing
J
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.. 3 -
Civil Service Board Meeting
September 30, 1975
both and
of time.
hearing~
in, light of the Sunshine Law, he felt a prelimlnary hearing was a waste
,He sU8gestedthe preliminary hearing be waived and go into a full public
Mr. Hatchett moved the meeting be adjourned.
:'.....;
H. 'M. Laursen
Personnel Director & Secretary
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