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MINUTES
THE PLANNING & ZONING BOARD
City of Clearwater, Florida
January 18, 1977 - 1:30 PM
1
Members present: Chairman Morris, Mrs, Crampton, Mrs. Parks, Messrs. Groth, Hall,
Kuntz, Tice and Turner; Bill Shepard, Engineering Dept.; W. D.
Renando, Acting Planning Director; and Jack I. Wolle, Chief
Planner/Current Planning
Absent! Mr. Kruse
Public hearing was held at 1:30 PM re application for annexation and zoning
followed by public hearing for the purpose of considering items to be included
in an Ordinance amending the City Zoning Laws, Appendix A, Clearwater City Code.
Tapes of public hearings are on file in the Planning Dept.
On motion by Mr. Groth, seconded by Mr. Tice, minutes of January 4, 1977 were ap-
proved as written.
Planning and Zoning Board recommended as follows.
Annexation & Zoning:
1. Begin 100 ft. W and 834.8 ft, S of NE corner of Sec. 19-29-16; continue
S 505 ft., [`T 250 ft., N 80 ft., W 80 ft., N 425 ft., E 330 ft. to P.O.B.
Renuest' CG (General Business) (Gillenwaters)
,,
¦ V
W.,
'r
Mr. Gillenwaters, owner of above property, is negotiating re restaurant. Two persons
appeared in objection. One was concerned regarding the sewage plant and the resultant
'odor. He stated that he had already contacted the Health Dept. and the Environmental
personnel, it was explained to him that this is a County sewage plant and serves
Tropic Hills. If annexed and a restaurant erected, they would be hooked up to the
City services. Another person spoke in objection to the traffic congestion. Discussion
ensued. Motion was made by Mr. Groth, seconded by Mr. Hall, to recommend approval,
subject to 40 ft. Might-of-way easement parallel to U. S. 19 and 10 ft. utility
easement along the south boundary. Motion carried unanimously. Recommendation is in
accordance with the Comprehensive flan.
2. That part of Tract A, Resub of Central Park described as follows: Begin
50 ft. S and W 100 ft. from the NE corner of NWk of NEk, Sec. 13-29-15;
continue W 327.54 ft., S 150 ft., E 330.92 ft., N 150 ft. to P.O.B.
Rerpuest: CG (General Business) (Metco Development Corp.)
Sheryl Myers, representative for Metco, stated that plans are in the offing for 8 or
9 stores to be erected on above property. Inasmuch as there is a second parcel to
the south, and, according to policy, both parcels should be annexed at the same time,
it was requested that Ms, Myers check with mortgage holder to see if they will release
the parcel to the south for annexation. Motion was wade by Mr. Hall, seconded by
Mr, Turner, to recommend continuance of above to February 1, 1977 in order to clarify
the position on the second tract. Motion carried unanimously.
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Minutes of the Planning & Zoning Board - January 16, 1977
Page #2
3. Lots 22, 23, 26 and parts of Lots 24 and 25, Hillcrest Estates, lot Addn.
further described as follows:
Begin at SW corner of Lot 22, Hillcrest Estates lot Addn. and run northerly
and northeasterly along E line of Lake Forest Rd. and S line of SR 590
(Coachman Rd.) 903 ft. to NE corner of Lot 26, Hillcrest Estates lot Addn..
thence southeasterly 395 ft., W 60 ft., southerly 166 ft., E 183.44 ft.,
S 305.76 ft., westerly 180 ft., N 15 ft., W 302 ft..to P.O.B. (Heishman et a1)
Request: RS-75,(Single Family)
The owner of the property was absent. However, the proposal is to replat 15 single
family lots. Mr. Tice inquired re plat plan showing the area. Engineering Dept.
would require lots to be replotted in order to dedicate College Hill Drive with a
60-ft. right of'way and to establish necessary easements. Motion was made by
Mr. Tice, seconded by Mr. Hall, to recommend approval of above and that it be platted
and zoned according to the stipulations as stated by the Planning and Zoning Board.
Motion carried unanimously. Request would be in accordance with the Comprehensive
Plan.
4. Nk of S' of Lot 8, Pinellas Groves SWk, Sec. 1-29-15 (Carlson-Delphin)
Request: ISP (Institutional Semi-public)
The fact was brought out that in order to establish a zone, 2.5 acres must be in-
volved and subject property is under that amount. Property is expected to be used
for a VFW club and requested usage is a special exception. The requested use will
require a plan change. However, there is no increase in density involved in the
change. Representatives of the Northeast Homeowners Association spoke against the
petition. They do not wish to see encroachment on the single family and'stated that
this request, if approved, would generate noise, traffic, and lower property .valua-
tions. Motion was made by Mr. Tice, seconded by Mr. Hail, to continue above request
to the next meeting on the legality of having it before the Board and to get a legal
opinion on the position on this item. On vote being taken, motion was defeated 3-4.
Motion was made by Mr. Hall, seconded by Mr. Groth, to recommend denial. Motion
carried unanimously. Recommendation was based on the applicant's not being; present,
application omitting use intended other than ISP, and the fact that to establish the
zone in a predominantly residential area requires a minimum of 2.5 acres.
5. Lot 1, Suban's Sub. (Heishman)
Request: RS-60 (Single Family)
owner was not present. Motion was made by Mrs. Parks, seconded by Mr. Tice, to
recommend approval. Motion carried unanimously. Requested usage is in conformance
with the Comprehensive Land Use Plan.
RbooninR:
1. Begin 355.15 ft. N and 203 ft. W of center of Sec. 5-29-16, thence N 110 ft.,
northwester]y 106 ft., W 456.72 ft., S 200 ft., E 512.57 ft. to P.O.B.
Request: From: RS-75 (Single Family (General Telephone Co.)
To: ISP (Institutional Semi-public)
-77 .7
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Minutes of the Planning & Zoning Board - January 18, 1977
Page #3
Mr, Bob Kerstein, Planning Coordinator for Real Estate, General Telephone Company,
explained that subject property would be used for a one-story electronic switching
station. He gave a brief description of location of station, buffer, parking area,
etc. Mr. Hall made the request that General Telephone Company contact the sur-
rounding owners of this propertyand inform them of the proposed plans. Mike Kenton,
Environmental Planner, expressed his concern inasmuch as a considerable portion is
a wetlands area, serves as a natural drainage area and should be protected. Motion
was made by Mrs. Crampton, seconded by Mrs. Parks, to recommend continuance to
February 1, 1977 pending a site plan of usage. Motion carried unanimously.
2. Begin 416 ft. N and 40 ft. W of SE corner of SW?, Sec. 9-29-16, thence
run westerly 330 ft., northwesterly 210 fr., W 865 ft. M.O.L., S 630 ft.,
E 1250 ft., N 380 ft. to P.Q.B. (Carolina'Cunstructioni:Corp.-City)
Request: From: RPD (Residential Planned Development)
To: RS-60 (Single Family)
Mr. Renando gave background of this property. This 15-acre parcel was originally
approved for Sunstate Builders as "Chateau Villas" on June 18, 1973 and was to be a
136-unit development at a density of 7.99 units per net acre. The revision is
for standard single family subdivision, conforming to r6-6q and is to be platted as
"Bordeaux Subdivision", consisting of 66 lots. (This will be a decrease of 70 units
from previous approval.) The City Commission approved the site plan on December 6,
1976. Motion was made by Mr. Tice, seconded by Mr. Turner, to recommend approval.
Motion cart'ied unanimously.
Revised Residential Planned Development
Lots 218 through 244 incl., Valencia Park Unit 3 as recorded in Plat Book 70,
Page 82 of the Public Records of Pinellas County, Florida,
AND
Lots 245 through 314 incl., Valencia Park Unit 4 as recorded in Plat Book 71,
Page 22, of the Public Records of Pinellas County, Florida.
(Sun Style Homes Corp.)
Ralph Quartetti, President of Sun Style Homes Corporation, made a presentation to
the Board. The RFD co{Qers the SE portion of Valencia Park as platted; plat is
located on NW corner of Montclair Rd. and Hercules Ave. (The City Commission con-
tinued this item from November 4, 1976 at the request of Valencia Park Homeowners
Association.) Mr. Quartetti stated that the revised plan was based on the comments
of the City Commissioners, residents and others. Intention is to develop the parcel
in detached single family homes, zero lot line in concept, with increase in lot size
and space between buildings (side yards to 15-ft. minimum between buildings). He
stated that land coverage would be reduced and open space increased. Mr; Quartetti'
also.stated.tthat prospective owm rs of these lots will be required to become members
of the Homeowners Association. Several members of the Homeowners Association spoke
against the plan cit#g the following: change to single family, detached; deprecia-
tion in value. Considerable discussion ensued. Statement was made that if it is
to be developed under single family, then it should have been RS-50 or RS-60 and,
in this particular case, it's putting a house on a very small lot. There was ex-
pressed concern as to the homeowners' feeling that the original concept would not
be adhered to and that perhaps this revised plan would not provide the lower cost
housing to meet the demand in the middle income level. Motion was made by Mr. Hall,
seconded by Mr. Tice, to recommend denial of the request for the change in RPD.
Motion carried unanimously.
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Minutes of the arming & zoning Board January 18, 1977
Page #4
Mr. Groth made the request that it be put in writing that a member of the Legal
staff be available during the Planning and Zoning Board public hearings.
Michael W. Kenton,.Environmental Planner, made a presentation on the Environmental
Management Program and Conservation Plan for the City of Clearwater.. He explained
the,process and what waa attempted in the Addenda to this document. This is a
planning issue and the staff is'seeking input.
Meeting adjourned at 4-.40'PM.
• `'tie
W. D. Renando, Secretary.
Acting,Planning Director x
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RLPORT' OF CITY COMMISSION ACTION OF JANUARY 61_1977
1. Rel uests for Rezoning,
a. Lots 12, 13 and 14, Block F, Fairborn Addn. to ISP (City) - Rezoned ISP
b.' Lots 8 thru 11, Block F, Fairburn Addn. to RM-8 (City) - Readvertise
c. Portior.3 of Greenwood Park to RM-8 (City) - Continue for 3 mos.
d. Lotg 39 and 40, Greenwood Park No. 2 to ISP (City) - Rezoned ISP
e. Lot 9, Block A, Pane Ridge Sub. to RM-8 (City) - Rezoned RM-8
f. Lot 13 (less S 6 ft.'for street) and Lot 14, Springfield
. .Sub'. No. 1 to RM-8 (City) - Withdrawn without
pre judiae
g. Block G. Fairb•rn Addn. to RS-50 (City) - Rezoned RS-50
h. Blocks D, L and H. Fairburn Addn. to EM-8 (City) - Rezoned RM-8
i. Lots 2 and 3, Block F Fairburn Addn, to ISP (City) - Rezoned ISP
J. Lots 1 and 4 through 7, Block F, Fairburn Addn, to
RM-8 (City) - Readvertise
k. Lots 15, 161 17 and 18, Block B, Greenwood Park
Sub, to RM-8 (City) - Withdrawn without
prejudice
1. Property in Countryside area, M & B 2 in Sec. 31-28-16
to RM-15 (City) - Rezoned to RM-16
m. S 300.766 ft. of Lot 9, Block B,.Unit No. 5, Replat,
Mandalay Sub. to CG (MBT Corp.) - Continue•to 1/20/77
2. City Commission commented on Downtown Redevelopment Plan.
3. :Amendment of Sec. 17.04 of the Zoning Ordinance - Authorized advertising
4. Preliminary Site Plan (Imperial Cove) - Approved subject to
Utilities Dept. ap-
proval
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TRANSCRIPT - PLANNING AND ZONIN BO PUBLIC HEARING - JANUARY 18, 1977
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MORRIS: Revised Residential Planned Development, property located on
San Marino Way S, San Sebastian Way S, Santiago Way S and
Madrid Court S (Sun Style Homes Corp.). Yes,.sir.
QUARTETTI: My name is Ralph juartetti. I'm the President of Sun Style
Homes, 1907 Barrington Drive West, Clearwater. Sun Style Homes
is requesting a revision of Valencia Park RPD. If you will
recall, a similar petition was advanced to this Board and approved
by this Board during the month of November. The petition was sub-
sequently denied by the City Commission and what we have done is
we have gone back and revised the petition based on the comments
of the City Commissioners and the residents and others. The
original petition in November was brought by M. J. Brock Company.
M. J. Brock is the seller of the land. Sun Style Homes Corp.,
cur company, is contract-purchaser of the parcel. We are in-
tending to develop the parcel in•:.detached single family homes,
zero lot line in concept. If you will recall,this was the same
type of a concept that we advanced last time we were here.
The original Valencia RPD calls for 40-ft. lots and duplex town-
house type dwellings. Each of the lots is 40 x 80 in the present
plan with a density of 9.3 per acre. There are, in this area
shown in green, which is the revised plan area, there was pre-
viously, thane is exactly platted today 97 40-ft. lots. The
40-ft, lots,being 3200 al. ft. in area,are somewhat smaller than-,
the 4400 a-. ft. lots we are proposing. We are proposing 55 x 80 ft./
Iota as opposed to 40 x 80's.Our petition previously was for 50 x 80's.
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Page #2 }
QUARTETTI
(Cont'd.): and it was a suggestion of some of the people involved that we
increase our lot'size in the space between buildings. So, there-
fore, what we have done is we have increased our side yards to a
full 15'-ft. minimum between buildings.
I want to show you how the change actually works compared to what
there is today. On my left, your right, we see an area of four
Valencia Park'40-ft. lots, roughly, exactly 160-ft. frontage that
contains four townhouse units which are joined at the property line.
There is a party wall between the buildings. These are one and
two-story townhouse type units, each one sold individually to
the owner so that each owner has fee simple title. We are not
proposing to change that. We are still going for fee simple
ownership. The proposed plan shows.in'a.idistance'.oft.165 ft.
three dwellings. In other words, we are looking at an area
virtually the same, and you can see the difference in configuration
of the buildings and how they affect the area. The land coverage
in the proposal is approximately 30.7%. The land coverage in
the existing Valencia is 33%. So we are reducing land coverage.
We are increasing open space and we are increasing the average
lot size per person. The unique part of our concept is that our
homes are zero lot line. That is, each home is detached but it
is placed on one lot line with tho full side yard being on the
opposite side of the building, giving the owner full access:and
use of his side yards rather than under a single family concept
where you might have a total of 13-ft. side yard between two
buildings shared by two owners, virtually useless by either of
them.
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Page #3
QUARTETTI
(Cont'd.);
The RPD toning allows this type of a use and this type of use
would not therefore be allowed under a standard subdivision
toning because we have s zero side yard, Doesuma Valencia Park
was already set up for a sera 1nt 1hip ,nNd hoesuss it allows for,
under the present use, 1S-ft. £rimi yN''s= w o a perfect oppor-
tunity to create a good taro lot 1111', rypli 1l11aiit, that takes
full 'advantage of the rarir yardn and olds y+lyda in every home.
The actual space between the back or ills hililding and the lot
line; that is, the ef£activr usable space from your patio doors,
is very much the same as it would be in a standard single family
district. However, this is a much more efficient use of the
land, and it gives the neighbors, it gives the owners, the
alternative of having a lower maintenance lot while still en-
joying single family ownership. So, therefore, we have wider
lots (this is a change); we have lower density, and we also have
eliminated from our petition a portion of (UNCLEAR) which was in
our past petition. Loma Linda Way is currently built out
partially with the townhouse duplexes by M. J.'Brock. There
were 7 vacant 40-ft. lots which our previous petition had en-
visioned changing to zero lot line concept. A't the suggestion
of the residents, we are going to keep Loma Linda Way the way
it is, and essentially build out the same type of units that
M. J. Brock has put there, simply so that Loma Linda Way maintains
its integrity as a townhouse development and, therefore, does not
have an interuption of building style. So, therefore, we ,
incidentally, M. J. Brock has given Sun Style the full right to
use their building plans, so we can build them exactly the same,
if we wish. The point is they will be built the same, and we are
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Page #4
QUARTETTI
(Cont'd.);
willing to agree to that which I have done in a letter to the
Planning Director. The Engineering Dept. has requested that
we not put our homes at zero lot line to this public park area
which is along the north border. In a letter to the Planning
Director; I have agreed to establish a 5-ft. side yard w.z?a
between the building and the park area which was the distance
suggested by Mr. Battle. We have also agreed that we will file
an amended plat which was suggested by this Board and Mr. Battle,,
and we will, of course, place the proper improvements on as re-
quired by the City when the new plat is recorded.
The architecture on the buildings and the flloor pl'anning,:ie very
similar to single family except that you will note the dwellings
themselves are deeper than they are wide. And this is to take
advantage of the full side yard areas on either side. We are
showing two and three bedroom, 2-bath units, each with the one-)
car garage attached. The two-bath unit, the smalldst one, is
988 ft. our largest three-bedroom, two-bath, is 1222 ft. The
present square footage!.of the townhouses in Valencia Park starts
at 988 si. ft. so, therefore, our smallest unit is very com-
parable to theirs. Excuse me, 960 ft. where their units started.
And they went up to as high. I guess, about 1500 ft. The average
square footage of living area in the Valencia Park units is about
1200 si. ft. The prices in Valencia Park, I guess as they
finished out the last townhouse units, started at $27,000 and
went up to the mid-thirties. Our prices are proposed to start
at $30,000 and go up to about $33,000, more or less, depending
upon options and so on.
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Page #5
QUARTBTTI
(Cont'd.): These renderings give a concept of the elevations and you can
see that the homes are very much like typical single family
homes. The buildings can be set 15 ft. back from the street.
Obviously, the garages have to be set further than that because
the City requires an off(INAUDIBLE)space,ao that the garage will
be 20 ft. from the street. The balance of the lot will be walled
so that there will be a wall between buildings, represented
here, and then there will be a wall down the property line across
the back and up the other side so that each lot is fully enclosed
giving a person complete privacy. It's really creating an indoor-
outdoor living situation so that the person lives entirely on
his lot, and,jif he wished, he could put in a private pool. He
could do anything he wanted. However, Valencia Park has a home
owners association and there are two swimming pools already in
place owned by the association of Valencia Park. We are agreeing
that these people in Unit k will be made members of that association.
Under the documents already existing pet-Units 1, 2 and 3, the
developer has the right to make those people members of the
association. Some of the owners were concerned that we wouldn't
bake the people members of the association. But to allev:Ute
those fears, we have written a letter to the City stating that
as a condition of this we will put those people in the association.
solving what could have been been maybe a Lh'airyAR) problem with
the owner. Are there any questions?
Ch, there is one thing, Mr. Morris, you brought up last time.
Water running off roofs. We have changed the roof drainage on
the buildings so that the back section of the building,.where it
lies along the property line, is flat, so that there is no sloptd
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Page #6
QVARTETTI
(Cont'd.):
MORRIS;
GREENRUT:
roof down to a property line. All the water from each roof
(iTRAiJIII. U)to be maintained on its own lot.
Any questions? Thank you very much. Is there anyone in the
audience who would like to speak in favor? Is there anyone
in the audience who would like to speak against? Would-you
come forward and give us your name and address, please?
My name is Leonard Greenhut•jand I'm the President of the
llama Owners Association of Valencia Park and I live at 2068
San Sebastian Way S, or San Sebastian Way N, (TRAWIBLE)p•upon
Oia way you live. I'm not used to this type of speaking.
11tit we have been wrestling with this problem for now since
November. We did not come before you at your first session
because we were not notified that there would be a meeting
in reference to changing the zoning in the other part of
Valencia Park that is not finished yet. We're coming before
you now as a group that is completely against this change.
When we first bought our homes in Valencia Park, we were told
that it would be finished as it was started, Now they are
coating to us and they want to make a complete change. The
residents are afraid of this change. They will make one
part of the park look completely different than the other
part. Many of'the folks are afraid that it will reduce the
values of their homes. We are told that the price of the
houses will be such and such. I cannot agree with that. It
likes to me that they are talking about $30.00 per square foot.
for a house that is 988 sq. ft. on a 55 x 80 ft. lot. I don't
believe that price range myself, personally. I think that it's
going to come in at a much lower price which will affect our
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Page #7
GREENHUT
(Contd.):
_,
me
HALL:
GREENHUT:
HALL:
GREENHUTi
HALL:
GREENHUT:
HALL:
GREENHUT:
HALL:
GREENHUT:
HALL:
t
homes drastically, and this is what we are apprehensive
about. We now, of course, appreciate the fact that they
are willing to take in the people into our home --- they
are making it mandatory that these people will be members
of our home owners association. I appreciate that. And
that was another big stumbling block. But our problem
basically is that they will change the, the face of Valencia
Park. This is not why we -- when we bought our house, we
were told otherwise. Now they are coming to us -- coming to
you folks with another whole concept. It's unfair. And we
object to it. I thank you.
"a way you are right now -- two houses are back to back;
is this correct?
Side by side.
Side by side. Right,so5thAt you had been using the zero lot
line ronept.
Yes, sir.
Do your people have -- do your friends and neighbors -- do they
have any objections to this zero lot line per se?
Not, not as we have now. No. No objections at all that I know of.
Do you think, that the two houses still have to be side by side as
opposed to each having their own side yards?
What we would like to see done is that they continue building
Valencia Park as it was started, side by side, connected.
Are the lots the same size as the original plan of your lots?
What is the size of your lot?
40 x 80.
So under the new proposal they would be'largor?; .•
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OREENHUT; They would be 55 x 80.
HALL: So, basically your concern was the appearance that they would be
single family instead of two-family houses.
GREENHUT: Yes, sir. It would change the entire face of Valencia.Park.
MORRIS: Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak
against? Yea, sir.
WEDGIE: My name is Michael Wedgie. I live at 2045 Loma Linda Way S.
dust across the street from the area that is to be developed.
When Mr. Brock owned the property the last time we had this
Board to the Clearwater City Commission, his representative
said that they wanted to change the design of the homes because
they were not marketable as we had them. And if they change the
design to make it a more marketable home, what does that do
to the people who live there and bought the houses under the
assumption that the entire subdivision was going to be com-
pleted the way it was started. That destroys any hope that
we have of ever having our property value increase, because no
one is going to come and buy a home on one side of the street
that'ssattached and buy a home on the other side of the street
that is detached. So our property value will decrease instead
of increase. This, I think, is a little unfair if they are
allowed to do this because we all bought in good faith and the -
the builder promised us that the whale subdivision would be
completed that way. If they 4, stroy the continuity of the
subdivision, they will destroy everything that we bought and
every reason why we bought It. So I don't think that these
people should be allowed to do that to us, just because they
want something that is more marketable-,'the testroftualhaVe
'to,rbe; penalized'., ! Thaakayou.,tou.
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Page #9
MORRIS; Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak
• against the application? 'till you come forward, please?
SMITH: My name is Linda. Smith. I live at 2065 Loma Linda Way and
E` plf'p I would like to voice my objection to this proposal, based
?
i on the reasoning that, in essense now, we have homes that are
; marketable because we have a square footage ratio that is
a=
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equivalent. if not larger than what they are proposing now.
?t
r We have two and three-bedroom models with a zero lot line
r
ar
and we are saying if what they say they are going to build now is
marketable, what's *irong with what they had? We have in essence,
beautiful two and three-bedroom homes with as large, if not
larger square footage than what they are proposing. And what's
wrong with the plan as it is in Valencia Park? We are all
pleased with our development and would like to see it continued.
? I
cr Thank you.
MORRIS: Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like
to speak against the application? Would you like to give us
} a rebuttal?
QUARTITTI: I should point out that the hearing today was advertised at
our re'suest. As you know, there is no ordinance renuiring that
' this hearing be advertised. Because of the objection, we asked
t
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the City to advertise this hearing and the City Commission hearing
at the same time, so you could hear both sides. One thing I
want to point out about the compatibility (INAUDIBLE) the sub-
division.There are no streets in the area that we propose to
town-
on streets that are built as existin
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are comm
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houses. (INAUDIBLE) the way we are proposing to do is the zero
0
4
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1
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Page 010
QUARTETTI
(Cont'd.): differences from one street to the next should be that much of a
problem. For goodness aakes, you go one more block further west,
you come to Montclair Estates, and it's a whole different look
than Valencia Park. I should also point out that the area around
us is compatible to this type of housing, because immediately
to the south across Montclair Road is Willow Ridge which is a
single family development, RS-60. We have purchased that land
from M. J. Brock and we are currently building model homes over
there which will be selling at high 30's and low 40's. If I
wanted to cheapen the neighborhood, my God, I wouldn't be building
$30,000 houses across the street. $30.00 a sluare foot for a
single family home today -- pretty difficult. Go out and shop and
find out and you'll see. The size of our homes at 988 to 1200
are compatible with the size of these homes which start at, as I
say, at 960. Their largest two-story model, I believe, is about
1500 al. ft. But, as we all know, when we go (INAUDIBLE) you lose
approximately 100 al. ft. (INAUDIBLE) when the house is two
stories. The actual living area is very much the same. The
product is compatible.
MORRIS: Thank you. Yes, Warren.
RENANDO: The staff has reviewed this, I believe this ib the fourth -
this is the fourth attempt at redrawings of this particular
subdivision. And the staff is of the opinion to support the
plan as outlined in that it achieves most of the objectives of
the developer and does not appear to hinder the subdivision on
the other aide. And it is separated by a park and that property
which is adjacent to this one on Loma Linda would be developed
in a like manner, and the property would be separated, and it is
separated by a park and by separate streets without any common
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Page #lI
RENANDO
(Cont'd.):
TICE:
RENANDO:
wall. It is still architecturally in Spanish motif (INAUDIBLE).
The RPD zoning on this particular property allows for the
zero lot line. I have and would like to read the comments,
if you so desire, from all department directors who are in-
volved in this process and, for the most part, stated no ob-
jection. And the developer has, on three or four cases, put
out a strenuous effort to comply with all the City codes and
ordinances and has made what, we believe, a legitimate effort
to placate most of the objections stated by the persons living
in the remainder of the dwellings of the subdivision.
Mr. Chairman. People are living there at the present time back
to back - or side to side. Now this comes through with the
individual concept of the wall on zero lot line (INAUDIBLE).
Was it the feeling of the Planning Board that this is a better
design from the standpoint of our entire concept of planning
rather than (INAUDIBLE)?
The City Commission rejected this primarily based on the ob-
jections of the home owners that #1, Noma Linda,-which is
across the street, woulddbe facting directly over the units
designed differently. That was one thing which changed from
the previous application. The second thing that was changed
is that the previous applicant did not wish to require the
people to belong to the home owners association which could
figure very much into their maintenance cost. The developer
has now said that he would require these people to belong
to the recreation association. The third thing, the objection,
was that the lot size itself, when they went to the same con-
cept last time, the lots were narrower, and they were afraid
of the Chinese wall effect. Well, the lot size increased
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Page X12
RENANDO
(Contd.):
MORRIS:
LADIES:
MORRIS:
.. ` ._11.1..'
significantly. The area is less intensely used in this
particular area. There would be fewer people - less demand
on services. There is a drastic reduction in many ways
from the original concept itself. It is still attemptingrto
achieve the original purpose for its approval; that is, to
allow to have some new families to buy into a single family
home at a leso price than is predominant within the area.
Later, last month, the average single family house selling in
Clearwater was at $38,000, and that is actually down a little
bit from $42,000. These houses, even at the highest price,
would all come under that to allow an opportunity for a person
wishing a home to get into it where they might not be able to
in any other way. This was the reason the plan was approved
in its original mechanism many years past to provide housing
for moderate income persons, and the reason for the RPD approach.
I do not believe, personally, and this is a personal comment,
that it is purposely (INAUDIBLE) for the City-to preclude the
developer who has stated that he cannot successfully finish
the product because it is not selling well - to preclude him
from trying to change the design, based upon the problem that he
has submitted it and now he's stuck with it whether it works
or not. I think a person should make every effort to allow
the people to complete their project once they have started
and not (INAUDIBLE) when something goes down.
Well, we thank you for your (INAUDIBLE). There's a lady in
the back.
May we say something?
Yee, both of you can. There is another person that wanted to
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Page #13
' MORRIS
_ (Cont'd.): speak also. If you wish to speak, will you give us your name
y' and address.
" CONRAD: I want to speak for some numbers that are left out.
MORRIS: What's your name, though.
CONRAD: My name's Conrad. Mrs. Omar Conrad. And I live at 2030 Loma
i
Linda Way S.
s
y '
s°•'''. !' ?V MORRIS; Thank you.
CONRAD., And in this page that you had sent us about the meeting,
the first group leaves out Loma Linda Way S. Then, my
+ last neighbor across the street that has just bought -
she says that their house number is 208. All right. Some
place in this first list it begins to start at 218 (?) -
Lot 0218 and it goes to 244 in Area 3. Now, that must be
my area. Then it starts at 245 and goes on to 300 and some-
thing in Area 4. Now, what is going to happen from 208, which
is the last house built on Loma Linda Way Street S,to that
244? What happens to that area? Mr. Doyle ought to have
all the answers to that. Because if, if it's just going
i
4 to sit there -- this is ridiculous.
RENANDO:. As I understand it, 208 and 216 will be developed as is and
' ' 1 4
•._ 217 through, all the way to 314, will be replatted to develop
' that (INAUDIBLE).
CONRAD: All right. What you are saying is all of Loma Linda Way S.
€ RENANDO: Right. Will be developed as it is. Right.
' CONRAD: (INAUDIBLE).
p ,.7
RENANDO: That's right.
CONRAD: Well, that's - that's wonderful. (INAUDIBLE). That's - but
fry I do think one thing that was said up here, and especially
Mr. Hall. The answer to Mr. Hall was very misleading, and
_ -- .;
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Page 414
CONRAD
(Cont'd.):
MORRI S :
ti
.r
Mr. Groth knows this - that in our area the homes are not
little bitty things like this, sitting on 40-ft. lots. That's
not true. They are homes that are big double homes built on
80-ft. lots. .The mere fact that I own - well, not mine - mine
is one of those queer ones - there's none in St. Petersburg
like mine - I mean in Clearwater - like mina. It's 52 ft. wide
and 106 ft. long. Nobody ever meant that to be. But, it -
I think they meant to put a street through it and it missed.
But, anyway, it's an absolute doll and I wouldn't take i farm
in Texas for it. But, is this'the same house, my size, they're
going to build on a 55-ft. lot line on the side? Now, my
(INAUDIBLE) 5 inches from the lot::iline on the back and across
all the front I have 106 ft. and have three streets. So I
really shouldn't be up here luarreling about their building my
(INAUDIBLE) house, unless I'm the only "uarrelsome woman in
Valencia Park. But, to make it sound like those are little
homes is absolutely ridiculous. They are not little homes.
If they had been, I wouldn't have bought up there. And if
mine had been on a 55-ft. lot, you couldn't have given it to
me. But. I know what the people are trying to do and I know
that Clearwater can't make money on rattlesnakes and weeds.
And I know that Clearwater needs that area built. And it is
a beautiful area - it's high, and it's very eligible. Every-
body loves it that comes up there. Everybody that lives there
likes it, but I don't think it's fair to downgrade it. Thank
you.
Thank you.
Ii
..rte
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17
r?
r r,
'rr
i W.
Page #15
GREENHUT: My name is Judi Greenhut and I live on San Sebastian. Now,
I?
k when we all bought in Valencia Park, we bought in good faith
also. And we were told by the builders that Phase 1, 2 and 3
would be the same as Phase 4. Good faith should stand for some- a.
thing. If they can build on Loma Linda S and stick to the con- Y
.1
tinuity as we have it now in Valencia Park, then why can't they
1 1a?
build the same thing, two and three bedrooms, two-story houses,
1 on the rest of the other street4 Why can't they stick to the
continuity? It is marketable. They keep saying it's not
marketable. Well, I think it is. And, also, I don't think
chat they have increased the lot substantially. I don't call
l
5••
! 5 ft. being very substantial. And I also no way, shape or form
j
believe they are going to sell those 988 sq. ft. for $29,900.
You'd have to be crazy. It's just not so, I don't think. r#
e
j
Thank you.
MORRIS: Thank you. Yea.
` RONNEY: My name is Robin Ronney. I live at 2044 Loma Linda Way S. To
bring back a retort somewhat to Mr. Renando's comments about
the marketability of the homes in Clearwater - when the recession
w R• t
{ hit, of course, many builders went to a smaller size house which
they thought would be more marketable. U. S. Homes, the nations's {
r
#1 home builder, and, which is, incidentally, headjuartered in
a,?2 Clearwater, went to a concept called "no frills" housing. A t i•
recent article in the paper indicated that U. S. Homes could not market this product and they have since dropped it entirely from'.'
their product line. Because people don't want it. They're ,
willing to wait for something better.
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Page #16
MORRIS:
GROTH:
MORRIS:
REN AITDO:
MORRIS:
GROTH:
TICE:
Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience
who would like to speak? I don't think that the
City should have anything to do withwhatdver tfhe dcvc.loper
developer builds .i 1,Ir'tT1$hbulld be .tip);tbl the 14eval4er.developer.
One thing that does concern.me here is (INAUDIBLE)
reluirements that the City has (INAUDIBLE) One thing
that does concern me and still concerns me in the last
plan is that single family home is on a very small lot.
(INAUDIBLE) recently changed the fact ([1NA'UIJYB•r E,) .that 5 ft. or
40 ft. or 55 ft., it's still on a very small lot.
It's still a single family residential unit on a very
small lot. Subdivision regulations require a single
family (INAUDIBLE)
lahat has been the recommendation, Mr. Chairman, of the
Planning Board (INAUDIBLE).
He just gave it to you.
The Planing staff recommends approval.
You have something new to give me? It seems evident that
the developers have attempted to correct some of the
objections (INAUDIBLE)
The last time this came up I did not know of the home-
owners' feeling for this whole matter. I was willing
to accept the concept. However, I do feel that these
are looking somewhat differently, if not quite dif-
ferently, because these people have already invested
in their homes and I think that their voices should be
taken very careful consideration. This is something
that was not brought to us the last time and is one
of the main reasons why we are back here today.
Mr. Chairman, the last time it was brought up, the
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Page #17
TICE
(Cont'd): primarylthought on the mind of several of us was the
fact that all of the homes were priced so high, that
the middle'-of-the-road person could not purchase.
Therefore, this looked as an opening for those people
to purchase a home in an area which they could more or
less afford than they would (INAUDIBLE) around this
area in the last 2 or S years. Now, apparently, the
Commission did not think the same way we did and
(INAUDIBLE) from the standpoint that they turned it
down based upon not enough area per given home. Of
course, some of the other items (INAUDIBLE) side to
side and.so forth. Now the developer has come with
some changes and these changesapparently don't agree
with landscaping program as designed before,pridre
kdt?tliidt:?hange,tt??;c:. The people here today object to
this so, ccnseluently, I can see from the standpoint
of us up here that we have some questions in our mind
or someone would rrtt: have brought up the motion. (btu-•
PAYid}Ulft my lopinlion J.;+the. develorper 1h as rlboked oJAtd Ln to
this as far as he possibly can to make the ramifications
that would be acceptable to the people in the area as
well as acceptable to the Planning and Zoning Commission
from the standpoint that it meets both requirements -
sometimes it's hard - the dividing line has to be made in
thereheamewhere (INAUDIBLE) or at least arbitrate to the
point where (INAUDIBLE).
PARKS; It's not that we're (INAUDIBLE) our position, 14hat is
the status of the ('INAUDIBLE) Ivy! :Tare?
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Pages' #18
I 1
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RENANDO: It can continue to develop as it exists.
PARKS: Which is
RENANDO: Townhouses. Well, actually, it's duplexespididbyby
side duplexes, on 80-ft. lots.
HALL: Mr. Chairman, one of the things that concerns me is -
going back to the basic (INAUDIBLE). When this was
set up as an RPD, the zone was created to allow
flexibility and design.and, not necessarily increased
density, but to allow for a better arrangement of
the property and what+p? being i!suggWisdbfrightlubw crow
is, I think, a single family development. And if that's
the case, then I think it should come under the single
family zoning, in which case it should then have been
an RS-50 or 60 or whatever the man wanted rather than.
to ttypand slip it under the RPD. Now, I think that
the zero lot-line concept has merit, but not in this
particular case. All that he is tryi.ng to do is tbajam
a house on a small lot.
I move that we deny the request for the change in RFD.
TICE Second.the motion.
Pt al:
MORRIS: It has been moved and seconded.to deny the revised
residential planned development., Any further discussion?
Haven't heard too much (INAUDIBLE).
CRAMPTON: Because I'm badly torn in both directions. I feel
strongly that we need some kind of lower cost housing
in Clearwater. And I think that's what the concept
of this whole thing was to the first place - was to
allow desirable housing that was not highly priced.
And I have been sitting here trying to make up my mind
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3 Page #19
. CRAMPTON
.(Cont'.d): - you know, consider what the difference is between
two houses side by side on an 80-ft. lot and a h
? !I f
separate house with a wall around it on a•'155.ft.lot.
And I'm having a hard time with it because I can -
1 7'
f I can fully understand what - you know - what the
i. '
F feeling is of the people that were in the area before
and purchased lots, and I can also feel the bitterness
? i II
that they must have 'about the idea of being told some-
thing ,'ib? a developer. Unfortunately, it's the story
of Florida. Dreams that - dreams that don't pan out. F
I must admit - I'm still sitting here trying to make
it V
up my mind how I'll vote on the question.
GROTH: There's one thing, Jeanne. The deve1per says the
'k houses are going to be the same prices so he's not
.1
.t: developing anything for, according to his statements
x here, the prices he gave on the houses -- $27,000 -
f $35,000 was the townhouse -- we're talking about 5
k r ^.
ai $30,000 - $33,000 (INAUDIBLE) for the Single Family
which is (INAUDIBLE) so he'a not developing lower priced
housing according to his own statements.
,.r
MORRIS: We have a motion on the floor. (INAUDIBLE)
" QUARTETTI: ! (INAUDIBLE) ?* 1
r. MORRIS: If you are going to give us some new (INAUDIBLE). Fine.
L
?!x ,K QUARTETTI: (INAUDIBLE) additional information.as to prices. s
Q;
w?TI MORRIS: You don't mind if I interrupt you, if it's not new
F ?yt f.?
s' sr information?
3 QUARTETTI: Not at all. That is - that the average Single Family
SIr'
r•L? r home price (INAUDIBLE) about a $40,000 home and, there-
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Page 020
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QUARTETTT !
(Cont'd.): fore, we are providing more moderate homes than the average '
in this area or the average in Clearwater. (INAUDIBLE)
,u
MORRIS: Thank you.
HALL: Mr. Chairman. Just so that we don't get confused. We are
talking about new houses so that if we're concerned with pro-
viding housing for folks who can't afford it, there are a
,
great many used homes down in Largo that sell for below $30,000.
But not new. So I think the idea of trying to provide a modest ,
priced new home is fine. It's quite an enterprise. That's +" ?E r
r
what, apparently, these folks came up with - a product that
they couldn't sell. For whatever reason. Maybe it's selling.
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I don't know. I'm getting mixed opinions here from these people, yl
Some say it is. Some say it isn't. But I don't think that's ti
our concern. I'm not concerned with the economics ofa.it as
much as I am concerned with the overall planning and the over- 3
.i
all of what is the proper zoning, and we're changing into a
concept here and I just think that's (INAUDIBLE) going to
„y
improve the neighborhood and that's my reason for the way it was.
(INAUDIBLE)
TICE: Mr. Chairman. I seconded the motion basically because if we T
get into RS-60 or 50 on Single Family residential district, ' ?•?
we are pretty well locked into the idea that we looked at a . 09
Single Family home on a single plot of land and this does not e
r ?
even (INAUDIBLE). Conse~ uently, I'm not going to get back to
another legal but from where I sit I feel
question, (INAUDIBLE), }
y
4
that the concepts have been established because this is the.way
we eiuate (INAUDIBLE) Single Family residential, this does not
meet it. Therefore, I seconded it on that basis. '
, to
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Page X21
THERE FOLLOWS A COMPL TELY INAUDIBLE STATEMENT/STATEMENTS.
It isn't that. I d 't vote for (INAUDIBLE) the last time,
(INAUDIBLE) lower density "INAUDIBLE). But also we did not
have any input from (INAUDIBLE).
HALL: I'd like to call the-,luestion,'
MORRIS: The iuastion has been called _ that we deny the revised '
residential planned development. All in favor?
MEMBERS: Yea.
MORRIS: Opposed? The motion passes, We will recommend to the City
Commission that it be denied. You all ought to be there at
February (INAUDIBLE), Thank you for participating.
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AGENDA
PLANNING & ZONING BOARD
January 18, 1977
ITEM
A - Approval of minutes of January 4, 1977
B - Annexation &_Zoning:
1. Property located on W side of US 19 S about
500 ft. S of Tropic Hills Dr. (Gillenwaters)
.Request: CG, Business
2. Property located on SE corner of Drew St. and
Mercury Ave. (Metco Dev. Corp.)
Request: CG, Business
3. Property located on SE corner of SR 590
(Coachman Rd.) and Lake Forest Rd. (Heishman et al)
Request: RS-75, Single Family
4. Property located an E side of Keene Rd. approxi-
mately 350 ft. S of Sunset Point Rd. (Carlson-Delphin)
Request: ISP, Institutional Semi.-public
5. Property located on SW corner of South and West Drives
about-500 ft. S of Sunset Point Rd. (Heishman)
Request: RS-60, Single Family
(NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING ATTACHED)
Rezoning:
1. Property located on N side of SR 588 about 400 ft.
W of Soule Rd. (General Telephone)
Request: From: RS-75 (Single Family)
To: ESP (Institutional Semi-public)
2. Property located on N side of Drew 5t. between
SR 593 and Monterey Ave. extended (Carolina
Construction Corp.-City)
Request; From: RFD (Residential Planned Development)
To: RS-60 (Single Family)
(NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING ATTACHED)
Revised Residential Planned Development
Property located on San Marino Way S, San Sebastian
Way S, Santiago Way S and Madrid Court S (Sun Style
i Homes Corp)
Adoption of the Portions of the Planning Documents Entitled
Environmental;Management,Program and Conservation Plan
-- Presented by Michael W. Kenton, Environmental Planner
`r; ??''SjS.?s•
41
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Agenda of the Planning 4oning Board January 18, 197 ,
page #2
C Chairman's Items
1. ,Report of City Commission action of January 6, 1977 $
2 Other
D- - , Director's Items
F
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B - Board & Staff Comments
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