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12/15/1951 ,."" .,,~,,_,c,;;~~i0)~~ i;: - lrl~~ f' ""><l,'" .... i!'~Sf:~\F; f ~', : '.- ",. . .oj.>;; .,~~".'; ~',,:. CITY COMlIlISSIOll MEETING December 15, 1951 The City Connisaion of the City of Clearwater Inet in special session at City Hall on Saturday, December 15th, at 12:00 Noon, with the following members present: Browrl Mayor-COl~lil'3sioner CO!.1ll1is sioner C01rIT\i saioner Conmissione I' Herbert M. Joe '1'urner Herbert M. Oa rland D. . . '.,' 1 I I '-J'\. \ I I I i I I I,layor Brown stated that the purpose of the r'leeting Vla8 to adopt Ordinance No. 616, repeallnp; Ordinances No. 614 and 615 and asked for expression of opinion frail Cornrnissloner s. COr.lIrlis sioner Blanton lJlade the follow ing 8tu ter:1C nt: It I opposed it for the reason that this Cor:nnisslon has accepted Brn approved the \'lOrk of this Committee at an early (jote. Way Lack as far as september this l:1Btter was before the public, and in OctolJer it \'18S up here on the agenda. Mr. Llewellyn, property oVlner fl'OM the Be~J(:h, e~lll1e and sugge sted some certa in change s. We took tha t sll~me stion under adviselllent. The 001111111 ttee lnade change 8 and calce back b t (:I sub- sequent meeting, at ~hlch l,lr. Llewellyn vIas here, ~md he Vlt:lS in accord with the changes. The whole procedure was open to the. public, und the public Vias appraised of it. Then 10 tel' when we rdade our final report this City COI:1lltisslon by unanimous vote approved and accepted that report in an entirely separate motion then. We voted on the Motion put by the Mayor that the City Attorney lIe authorized to prepare two ordinances, one (>0" h,[: f''))? ~n IillCi~.tiQn providinp; for election ror this Zoning Act for Heferendun, the other adopting the Zoning Ordinance itself, each of which required three separate readings. Three motions on each Ordinance were put by the Mayor and u.nanimously vo ted on by this Commission, and wa s unani- mously ca rrled, whereupon the prope r machinery via s put in order to proceed with the election, and then a public hearing Vias given on this matter, which was publi- cized in the papers at which all property owners who Vlere not sufficiently informed could come and inform themselves of the Zoninr, Act, study the map, or e sk any questions here so they could be prepared to vote ltyes,lt or "Holt on the Ordinance. Very few objectors appeared, the chief objection being a move spearl~aded by Mr. Baskin who has more or les8 controlled the operation of this City, its policy, affairs, officials and otherwise, for the past tV/enty years. Appearing with Mr. Baskin Vias ~ir. ':'im Johnson whom it is well known is associated with Mr. Baskin in busine ss enterprise s, and Mr. Randolph, who is an agent of IIiI'. Be skin in handling of Beach property, and an objection by the representative frOlIl the Edge- water Drive Association, which project has been twice or th.ree times turned down by the Zonin~ Boa I'd and twice or thre e tir.1e s previously turned down lJy the Oi ty Cor.nniasion. On the strength of those objections and a letter fror.1 Mr. Shannon, the Mayor reVel'ses himself, backfires on all the work we have done, all the motions we' ha ve carried previously, ond a sl::ed the t the COI;1uission repeal the Ordinance which was passed. I think it isn't fair to the property owners to be deprived of the ri~ht of passing on this T:lBtter at a Rofependum, and if they vote in favor of it, after the first of the ';Irear it can be ta):8n 'J.p and changed by a new ReferehdlIDl, or if the~r vote it down it can ogain be br011p;ht up after the lrew Year in the new form and voted on. For those reasons I can see absollltelv no reason to snatch this away from the right of tho property owners to corne to the polls next Tuesday and vote on it in the ReferenduM Wllich has been ~lblicized and provided for, and for that reason I oppose any action boing taken at this time.1t Con1L1issioner Turner soid the question in his mind regarding tho advisability of failing to hold a Referendum now is not ba sed on the same preJ.lises us l,lr. Blanton had just outlined, but rather on 1>ur1iar:lentDry questions. lIe suid he felt that before the Ordinance is read a report should be :made by the City A ttornoy with regard to the legal effect of such action as the Corii,mission proposed to take. City Attorney read Section 5 of Chapter of the City Code as follows: BIa n ton Lynn Absent: Thoma s H. Bla ck, Jr. C01l1missioner '... I' ;J,(ooV'-" Also present: F. C. Middleton C. E. \'Vnre George 'I'. 1.;cClarmlla City l.lanager Ci t'Jr Attorney Chief of Police Meeting wa s called to order by I\la YOI' Brown. , I 1 \ ! " .' ~'; . IIEffect of repeal of ordinances. The repeal of an ordinance shall not revive any ordinances in force before or at the time the ordinance repealed took effect. liThe repeal of an ordinance shall not a ffect any punislu.lent or penalty incurred before the repeal took effect, nor any suit, prosecution or proceedin~ pending at the time of the repeal, fop an offense cOrTInitted under the ordinance repealed." City Attorney stated that he had done no special research and that he had not been requested to do so, but that he wonderecl what effect repeal of Ordinance Ho. 614 might have on the status in which it would leave the Zoning Ordinance. He said that this is a general law in nddition to being in the Charter. He said when an Ordinance or Law l'epeals another Law and then one [';oes lJack am repeals the repeal- inp; law it does not bring tho other law bacl~ into exi~tence. He said that the both stand in the status of. beine repoaled and that inasr.mch as Ordinance No. 614 amends several sections of the Zoning Ordinance and also ha 3 the effect of arllending the Zoninp, :Map that that should be taken into consideration also. Ho said he had had no time to look up co sa 3 on the point. COr.1missioner Lynn sa id tha t the City would have no Zoning Law OI' Ordinance in the City at all in that case. City Attorney said that it would affect only the sections of the ZoninR Ordinance Wllich Ordinance No. 614 amends. Corranissioner Blanton sa id that it would still leave pretty wide loop holes. Mayor Brawn said that neither of the Ordinances is effective until it has been voted on by the people. He said the Ordinances nru.st be voted on and are of no force and effect until thoy have been voted on by the people. City Attorney thought he was correct on Ordinance Uo. 614, but as to Ordinance Uo. 615, which is an amending Ordinanc~ and simply provides for an election, that it would not have that effect. He said that Ordinonce 110. 615 does not hove to be approved by the people. COIl'lLlissioner Lynn cOI1U':J.ented tl1a t the previous nip)lt the City Attorney had ..'._-~.~ ~.~ ;>~. ~.' ',',~. ~'~"'(:'.i, ;: : , I . t .. ,',. ..' !, .' . ", , , , -~- CITY COM11ISSIOU 1.mETING ~~: ~:~e~l:. t H~ll~:~d t~~ ~f,~ ~n::~;: :;~;;: . ;; , ~~:~~i l.~~ f~~~ ~ e~: ~~~ r B~~~nr'~~:~e~~ed :!:;:~f~~r!:f:~ that it was sub,1ect to the approval of the voters. COr.lmi:3Sioner Turner said that '...... if the Commission vote s to kill the 1'e zoning tha tit will leave the door wide open . , . on the zoninr, because of the fact that the neVi zoning law cancels out a number of ".' things in the old Zoning And according to the law \\hen you repeal an Ordinance it does not bring the old one back into effect. Cor:unlssionor Lynn agreed that it would leave the door wide open on the zoning. Mayor Brown said that the point just rna de should be cIa rified in this manner: tha t tha t Ordinance wa s po saed by the Commission, and is not yet effective. He as}:ed the City Attorney if this vms correct. City Attorney stated that it has not gone into effect 80 fur as changin~ the zoning law is concerned. JIe suid that that was his opinion without having had the opportunity of r.1Ulcing detu i1ed re search. Comnis3ioner Lynn :30 icl that he thought it autOl'.1aticall71 becar.lfl effectivo on its third and final readlng. City Attornoy said that an far us the City Coru:li:Jsion in cone:erned it would becOI:!e effective, that it becm.1C the low of the City us the operation of the City COl':D'1i:Js ion were concernod sub joc t to approva 1 1ry the poople. lIe so id tho t this third stage hus not ;f{lt been reocho<l. As to the effoct - he said he went to the Circuit Court roon to do 1'e :J08 rch on thi s point and could f'iml nothinF, on it - thu tit is a novel si tua tion in law. He so id t}w t hi:J curbstono opinion is to follow l.layor 151' 0\'1 n 1 s theory - tlwt Orclinance 110. 61~1 30 far as actually deotroying certain sections of the Zoninh Orclinonco cloes not lWGOl,lO ef'foctive until approved by the people, lmt that he 3tronl~ly Hunted it underntood that this io strictly a curbstone opinion. lIe sa id it sounded I ike good sound logical rea :Joning. Cor;nninsioner Turner as]wd the City Attorney if it is his opinion now thot certain portions of the old Zoning Ordinance hElve not yet been Jel11od. City Attorney stated that the COl.1nisoion has creatod 8n Ordinanco which hus beCOI:le the 1aVl of the City up to the point at which it now stonds onc1 that af'ter the third sequence of events the door is slanaed completely and there is no e}) astian about the effect of it - that you hove definitely repealed the provisions of' the old Zoning Act. C01rnnissioner Turner said that if the City votes now without lottinp, it go on to the people to kill this Ordinonce we have just passed it automatically repeals the features in tho old one. City Attorney said he was inclined to follow the reasoning of I':layor Brown that it does not have th8t effect - that in order for it to become cOlnpletely effective it must be voted on by the people. Corrnnissioner Turner said that Ordinance No. 614 could be cancelled and not have it change any previous Ordinance when it wa s pa ssed . Ci toy Attorney I" epeE:! ted tha t that is his curbstone opinion only - tlwt he has had no opportunity to do research on it. Commissioner Lynn flaid that if the COl:1J':lission repeals it it can be brought back within any given tine. City Attorney said that he has exan inotl the original special Act of the Legislature and that it says specificallv that this Referendum goes not by calendar years but by fiscal years, and that the fiscal year begins .Tllly 1st, and that it would be pos:Jib1e to huvo this election lAt the pl'esent time if the Cor;mission should try to go ahead wi th it and hU1ediatoly af'ter next July 1st have another election on this point. l-layor Urown said one could be held in April and one in Decenber. COlllnissioner Lynn a sked that if this ballot remains on the r.18chino am if people vote on it and it does not pass if' it could be brought back at another tillle am voted on ar,ain. Mayor Brown said that it has been the policy of the Cer:mission to brinr, thinp;s bofore the public and lot then be in on anything the C0I:1rais~3ion doe s, and tha t the splencl id \'Iork vihich ha s been clone should not be lost because of' the fact th9.t the public does not know v/hat it is all about. The map, he stated, \'Ias placed orJ (hsp1ay less than 10 day s ago, and that that is the thing people are concerned with. He uaid they can look at it and knoVl exactly what it means. City Attorney stated that it was placed on (lisplay the l':1orning after the enactr.lent of the Ordinance approving it, the 5th of'Docer.1ber. Co:r.unissioner Blanton commented that that was as early as It conld have been placed on display. Cor:rraissioner Lynn sa id that he thin}(s the Comr:1.ission is crowding the cancelling of the election too close to the doto of the election. Mayor Brown cor:rr:1ented that the City will probably r;et SOlile criticisrn froT:1. it, but thot peoplo in town know that they have the privilege of voting and that they could vote and Id11 it, and that while it r.1ay not suit everybody he felt that a r:Jfln should be in a position always to change his I.1.inc1 when things are pointed out that haven't been complied with - tha t tha t is the usua 1 procedure which is followed in the Corrnnission - tho tis", let the people know what they are going to vote on. COr.1I'1.issioner Turner said that if the Comr.1ission could know "/hat the reaction of the public \/as going to be that they would know which 1s more wise - to go on and hold the election or post- pone it. He said if the COl.1Iilission goes on with the election and the people vote it down the Cor.nnission could bring it back again, and at the sar:1e time there is a possibility that they will vote it in; and they still would correct certain little discrepancies in it, even if the Commission VISited for some time to hold the election. lIe said that he vlOndered if the general public \/ould think that the Cor~ission wa s stampeded by a minor! ty and would not give the rest of the voters a chance to vote on it. He said he did not want to have people thinking that he voted not to give people a chunce to vote on it, that he vlOuld wunt them to have no misunderstanding of it - that the Commission did not give thern a chance to vote on it. He said it would take a Solomon to figure out what Vias best to do. City Clerk stated that he had asl{ed that the votinp.; 1'lachines be blanl{sd outl ond that he wondered if it is too late to have them changed. Cornr.1.issioner Blanton felt that the 1.18chines had been changed prernaturely. COIrnnissioner Lynn said he waa frank to say that he did not knovl which way to vote. Cor,1r.lissioner Blanton said that the taxpayers are going to react unfavorably when they ]mow it is taken off the ballot. Cor.missioner Lynn cormented that right on the eve of election the City is in a legal tangle and that the City Attorney is giving only his curbstone opinion rather than expert advice, os he has not had time to go into all the angles of it. He said that he did not see what difference it makes ~ether it is voted on now or later. C01rnnissioner Turner said that if it 1s voted downl the COI!JJ1ission w 111 know whether the people want it or not. Commissioner Lynn said that not many people attended the meeting the night before, and that it'should not change the election at all. Moyor Brown stated that he did not believe the matter has been properly presented to the people and that they don't know What ..,'/:'::::; ..,..>~ . .' ~';'<~;',,~; ..,;~:;;:~.~,:,'j~J1;~:~~:":':2~i... ..:; . ...... t. ..~~:;(I~~f~;tl ,/" : ';<~;.::',<, ~~i . .' 1 . " ~ :.' ','~':/F, ':.1 . ,', ,'. " i i(j > ;'1- ...- . . i'-'- ',....,.,'. j 1 i I 1 I J .1 I ,f 1 .;' ).' .<_.~""',... -. ( I " \.j' ... ., , . . .',' I':':;;;',> I'I>:~'{~ ,"'~'::~:, .:.;:.."/ :::;'::.:)~~(~.:.~ . ," '" '-'. ,. ~'.., ( . ".. '" f;;;" ;.~; \.~I.~'.'~;\ . ", '.;'~;. ~r".:: ~/".:<.j~'.".., ...!(~:t~'.:':'~:~:1(~:~f,:::'\~~'(~t{r~~1~ . '. ~ . ..", -.-,.........,..... ,...._' .~;. ~.:. ..,;..... " .~ ....:~~n....~....J ~J/,:~ .~h../:.. ~ . ~.-,:.; ....~: .':.i:~:..:..~:.~..~:. :.~':.>.\:. :.:,...~, ..".:.......,. 31..,G, .'; . -3- CITY COMMISSION MEETING December 15, 1951 they 9re voting on. Commissioner Blanton then !:lsked why the Ordinances had been pa ssed by unanh10us vote if this wore the 08 se. Mayor Brown ata ted that f'our lnen disagreed a s to whether there \Va s suffie ient tiI1e" that it had been di scussed for an hour or two. lIe said that he did not bring this lnatter up, that Mr. Lynn had brought it up and initiated dlscllosion I' egfJrding taking it off the ballot. Commissioner Lynn said that ho did not recall initiating it, that he had wanted to discuss it for his own knowledge. He 3tutod thut Mr. Paul Handolph began the discussion. Mayor Brown na1d that he had Inoant that the Commission had initiated the di scussion, but tha t tha t is not the importo nt element of the rna tter. Comrnissioner Turner said that it seelned awkwurd to him. since the COI:JInlssion voted to put items on tho map a certain way and then wilen the public comes in and wants it changed, that the COl.Uilission is put in an unpleasant position. Mayor Brown stated thf;1 t the C01:1I111ss ion 1'eels tho t tho Country Club should be H-l instead of R-2, and that it is allldng the public to vote on sOlnothing that is wrong. Commissioner Blanton said tha.t he culled up Ml'. Buslrin bocause he knew he lived in thut arou and would lcnow, uncl 8sked whethor it VIUS R-I or 11-2, and th!:lt Mr. Baskin told him that it hud nevor l)oon voted B-2 - it \0/00 R-I. He said that he diacussed the lower end of. the Beuch l)nu Inv,i ted hIm dOWll to tho Bnginool" n Office to go over some of the zoniHg, which he did, t. ;ld that dOVIl! In tho Bngineor' a Offico tno zoning law was discussed and zoning on the lJeHch, und thot at that tiI.1e he had pointed out to him the zoning of B-2 in the Country Club urea all the 110p, and tlwt that was the way it was going on, and thllt he had asked for no chanr;03 on it at that time. Mayor Brown c01TIl',wnteci tlll] t tho r,lE1 p wn:J not c oI.1plete . City h ttornoy ate tad tlll:l tit went on eli splay tho morning following the Cor:1I:1isll ion I:loet ings (J t which the Ordinances were pa:meel, and it was publinhed the next clay. lIe said it was at the Enp;ineer's Office complote the night be1'o)"o. COIiuni3sioner Turner usked how it could have been properly drawn until after it was de:finitel~r voted 011 - that it would have boen prerrlf.lture to draw the Inap ahead llml then huve some scction changed. City Attorney said th9t tho proper tilfle for changes to 'be l.Ulde was prior to the time the I,m tter wa s subl:!i tt(lcl to the Ci t:r C01:JI;li ss ion for the purpose of pa ss ing the Ordinance. He noid thot the time pa3sage betweon the passing of' the Ordinance and the holding of an election was a normal tiue. HE:) saicI that if the City Govern- ment wished to change any purt of it that it should have been done in the period expiring priOl' to the SUl:Uila t10n of the no tter in its final form before the Ordinance was adopted. Mayor Brown said that he did not believe that the public had been sufficiently informed, that he wasn't reflectin~ on tho worl:: itself~ that only one or two 11 ttle change s sr.ould be made. He sa iel tho t the tirile cler.lent is involved. He sa id if the COllll1iss ioners wont to ho ve pe ople vote on it now the t they should make a notion to tha t effect, and if tho COlilrlissioners VlEmt to vote to ha ve the map amended throur,h the wishes of the people a notion should bc nade to pa ss Ordinance No. 61G. COlnI:1i asioner Turner sa id tha t if the Cor:tr.1ission had gone ahead with their ideas and had the r.tap prepared prior to the Ordinance and had it on display and available for everyone to see it then v/hen the Ordinance was passed the C01"1m1ssion could have, suici that the map hael been suff'iciontly on display. Mayor Brown su id tha t he felt the t the vote Vlould probably C011e to a Bucce Bsful conclusion, us far us that was concerned. City Attorney said that it happens that this special election is set up with the general election - that always the general election gets out a consiclorolJle vote~ and ,:that when you have a special election on a zoning questlon alone the history in nost towns is that the vote is very small. Therefore, there Vlould be a Ioluch larger numlJor of' people votin~ on this if it were put on the ballot alom~ with the general elect:.on. He said that there is a lot more chance that the Ordinance would pass in the face of opposition submitted alonr, with the p;eneral eloction than it would in the face of opposition wrien there was not a general election and a s10011 nur,1ber of' Opposillg people could defeat it. , , i i , i \ 1 i I I 'i I I 1 I ," "'. :::,'/'.';;"'.' ~', '.' .:':"t':., : There being no further businoss to come 'before tho Coromlission, the l:leeting was adjourned by llJayor Brown at 1:00 PM. ~~n ,'-j ~ // .~ /4--./)-; //:~'P.4-"'#-- 1a yor- COl"1r'1i s s i one'r/ ATTEST: City '~ ~,~. " !'\ < I I , " CTTY COb1�tISS:COI�T PIEETIxdG Uecera�er 15, 7�951 3��- The C3ty Cormtis�ion of the City of Clearwater met in special session at Ci�y Ha11 on Saturday, ?�ec�mber 15th, at 12:UU Noon, vvith ttie Pollorrixsg members present; IierUert Iv4, Bxown Joe Tlzrner Herbert r�i, Ii�Anton Crarland D. Lynn Absents Thonias H. I31ack, Jr. Also presen�b F. G . P+Iiddleton C. E. �Vare Geor�;o T. I�;cCla�ia D4eetin�; was called to orc'�er b� I�la,yor E�rown. hla�or-Co��iiss3.oner Cor,ml�s sioner Corrmiissioner Commissioner ConQai s s i one r City I�Ianager City k�torney Chie.� of Police I;fayor �3rown s�ated tYiat the ptzrpose oP tYie rseeting vaas �� adopt Oxdinance No. 616, repealing OrdinAnces Ida. 614 and 615 and asked ior expression of opinion frcrri Cormnissioners. Cammissioner F3lanton made tne Pollowing sta�ements ��I opposed it i'or the reasan that this Cormiission Yias accepted and aZ�provecl the y�o`rk of this Corrnnittee at an earl� date. 4Jaf back as iar as Septezaber this raatter �ras Uefore the public, an� in October it v�as up �.ere on the aF;enda. Lir. Llev�ellyn, property ovmer fror.i the Beach, ce�e and sug�;ested eor.7e certain cYiangey. 1�e took that sug�estion uncler advisement. The Cor,�nittee made ckianges and car:e back at a suU- seglzent r�eeting, at Wlzich T�Ir. �lewellyn v��s here, and he tiaas in ac�ord v�ith tYie cnan�es. The Vrhole procedure was open to the. public, and the �ublic v�as appraised oi it. Then later rvhen �ve r�iade our final report tris Gi-�y Cor:mii�sion hy unani�ous vote approved and accepted tYiat report in an entirely s eparate rnation then. V7e voted on the motion put by the t�iayor that tr!e City Attorney be authorized to prepare two orclinancee, one a^i i� n�;��Lara g3ss}; ^^ providing for election �'or this Zoning Act for Referendura, the other adoptin� the Zoning Ordinance itself, eaeh of whieh rsquired three separate reaciin�s. Three motions c�n eacr �xclinsnce were put by the IrIayor and unan9moualy voted on by this Cor.aniasion, and ivas unani- mouslg carried, �rhereupon the praper machinery vias put in order to proceed v�ith the election, and then a public hearing ti�as �;iven on this r,iatter, which �,vas ;rnzbli- cized in the papers at which all px�pert� owners who v�ere not sui#'iczently informed could come and �nform themselves of the Zoning Act, study the raap, or ask any questions here sa �they cou].d be prepared to vote 'h'es,'� or '�I1o" on the Oz�clinance. Very i'ew objector� appeared, the chief objection being a rnove spearheaded by I�Ir. Baskin who has more or less controlled the operation of this City, its policy, affairs, ofiirials anc� otherv�ise, for the past tvlenty years. Ap�earing with bir. Baskin vras Bir. �.'im JoYinson tivhom it is well known is associated with NIr. Baskin �-n business enterprises, and f�?r. Randolph, v�ho is an agent o� Itir, Baskin in handling oi' Beach property, and an objection by �the representative from the Edge- water llrive Association, which project has besn twice or tliree times turned down bv the Zoning Board and twice or three ti�les previously tnrned ciown by the City Cor,vnission. On the stren�th of those objections and a letter frors hTr. Shannon, the hia�jor reverses himaelf, backfires on all the v�or]: r�e 2�ave done, all the motions 1ve have carried previously, and asl-:ed that tiie Conr7ission repeai t?h� Ordinance rvhich was passe�, T think it isn�t fair ta the propertv ovrners �o be deprived of the x�i�ht of passin�; on this raatter at; a Re�'erendum, and ii tkiey vote in zavor of it, after the first of the vear it can be ta}�en �ap and chranged b� a neti�r Referendiun, or if they vote it d��vn it can a�nin be t�rot��,ht up after the Ple�r Year in the new form and voted on. For those reasons z can see absalutelv no reason to snatch this a�vay frora �hs ri�;ht o.f the propert}f owners to come to the pol.ls nex� '�uesday and vote on it in the Referendurn which has been publicized and provided ior, and ior that reason I oppose any action bein� taken at thia �i.me," Com�aissioner 2'urner said the question in his raind regardinq the advisability of iailing to hold a Referendt�m now is not Uased on the same prenises as 2,ir. Blanton had just eutlined, but ratlier on Parliaraentary questions. He said 1ie £elt that before the Ordinance is read a report should be riade by the City �lttorney v�itt� regard to tha Ie�al ef.fect oz such action as the Coruniseion proposed to talie. City Attorney read Section 5 of Chapter of the City Code as follnSas: °Effect of re��eal of ox•dinances. The repeal nf an ordin�nce shall not revive any ordinances in force before or at the t3.me the ordinance regealed took ef.�ect. �'Tkie repeal of an ordinan�e shall not �ffect any punis2�aent nr penalty incurred befere ttie reper�l toolt effect, �or any suit, prosecu�ion or proceedin�; �endin� at the time of the repeal, ioi: an offense corun�tte� under the ordinance repealed." Ciby Attornef s�abecl that he had done no special reaearch and �17at he }iad no� been requesteci {:o do so, but thAt he �vondered what effect repeal of Ordinanee i�io. 614 migh� have on the status in �vhich it ��ould leave tlie Zoning Qrdinance. He said that tlzis is a�eneral lativ in addition to bein�; in t�ie Charter. I3e said �viien an Uxdinance or Lativ repeals anotiier L'rztiv and then one �;oes bacL and repeals the repeal- in�; l,a1v it does not brin�; the other lacr bnck into existence. He saic? tnat ttie both stand in tlle s�atus of bein� repsaled and that inasnnzch as t?rdin�nce No. 614 arnends several sections �f the Eoning Ordinance �n� alsa ha� the effoct of amending tkie Zonin�; Nlap that that should be takei� into oonsiderai;ion also. Fie said he had had no time to look up CA3P,3 on Lhe �oii�t. Cor.n�aissioner Lynn said i,hat the City would hfave no Zcsnin�; Laiv or Ordinance in the City at all in that cnse. City Attorney staid tha� it would af�'ect or�l,y the sect�ons of the Zonin�; Urdinance �vli:ich Ordinance I3o. 614 amends. Corim3s�ioner Blanton said tha� it tvould still ler�ve pretty �vide loop hole9. Alayor F3rown said that neitkier of the Ordinrances 3s effective until it has been voted on by the people, He s�id the Ordinances ima.st be voted on and �re of no force and effect until, the,y h�ave been voted an bq the people. Cit,y l�ttorne� thou�;ht lze was c,orrect on Qrdiri�ance ido. 614, k�ut a:q ta Ordin�ance Tro. 615, t�hich is an amendin�; OrainAnce and sim�ly provides for an e],ection, that it would not have tl�at e�fect. IIe sqicl th�rt Ordinance 210. 615 d�es not h�ve to �e ai�proved by the people. Comrtissioner T,ynn co;c�:iented t2�at the previous n;�;kit trie C3ty �,ttorney had ;�;. _<z_ L'TTY CJI�9BitBSIOTd .t�iI�',ETII�T(} I�gcemUsr 15, 1951 stated �hat those trvo Ordinance's �vera in ef£ect �nd tlia{; �not7iar one nn.tst be. prepare�i. He said in that case they Are in �zll efi'ect. i2ayor Srown repeated tYiat it �vas sub,ject to the a�proval of the voteis. Cor.irn3,s3ioner Turner sA3d that if the Corru��ission votes to l�ill tiie rezon3n� �h�a� 3t tvill 1o�ava �iie door �vide open on �he zonxnF; Uecauso oi t11e f.act tl�t the new zonin�; la�v cazicels out A nurnUer of thin�s in the o1d Zonin� and aocordin� to the la�v ��en vou ropoal an Orlinance it floes no� bring the �ld �ne baok into ef'fect. Coru;iiss�oner L,ynn a�;reed 1;hAt it would leave the doar wide open on the zonin�;. TIayor Brotv�Z �aic� i;hat thP poi�t �ust made shotzld bc; clarif3ed in this mannex; that that Ordinrance �vas passQcl by the Corunission, and is �;ot yet effective. Ha r�sk�ed the City Attornoq if this wras correct. City AttoTne,y qtated that it has not �;one inbo effect so �'r�r as chan�in�; the zonin; latv is concerned. iie said that th�t �v�s his opinian �vitlzout xiaving had the opportunity of rsalzing de�ailed researcki. Cosrmiis3ioner Lynn s�ai�, that ha thou�ht it automatiUally becar.ie offect�ve on its third and final read9.ng. C3,ty Attornay s�id tYxat as far as the Gity Cor,�iission is concerned it ti°roitld becorae effective, that it l�ecar,le �lie law oz' the City as the operatzon o�' tlie City Coimnission were concerned suUject to approval b;r •che people. fIa s�aia th�at tYiis third stage has not ,yet been reachad. As to the e�fect - he sqid l�e went to �he Circuit Court roon to do re3earch on this point and could find nothin� on i� - t2iat it is a novel situation in la1v. �ie snid tlla� his curl�s�one opinlnn is �Lo �ollow I�Ia for $rorrn's tYieory - thAt Ordinance Ido. 61�.� so far �s actually destroyin� certain seetions of the Zaning Ordinance does not bc�corae ef�ective izntil approved by the people, t�ut that ize strongly ��anted zt understood that this i� strictly a curbstone opinion. L-Te aaid it sounded like �ood sound lo�;icA1 reasoning. Co�missioner iurner asked the City AttornEy if it is liis opinipn no�v L-hai; cert�in port�ons of the old Zonin�; OrdinanGe liave not yet been ltilled., City Attorney stated LI78� the Co2:u:iission has created an Qrdinance �vhich has }�econ�e the lati� of the Cit,y up ta Gha point at �vl�ich it now stands and that af�er the third seguence pf events the cloor is slar:�ed completely and tYlere is na qu eation al�out �he effact of it - that you have defin�tel� repe�aled the provisions of ttie old Zoning Act. Commissioner Turner said that ii' the C3ty votes now ��ithout lettin�; i� go on to the people to l:ill this Ordin�nce tve have just passed it automatically repeAls the features in the old one. City Attorne;y s�id he tivas inclined to follow tYie reasonin� of I�Ia,�or Bro�7n t'nat it does not have that effect - that in order for it to become completely ei'�'ective it r,�ust be voted on by the people. Commis3ioner Turner said that e�rdir_�nce Ide. 614 could be cancelled and not have it chan�;e any previous Ordinance when it was passed. Citv l�ttorne,q repeatecl that that is l�.is curbstone apinion only - that ha has had no opportanity to do research on it, Go�missionar Lynn said that if the Coru;iis�ion repeals it it c�,n be brougY�.t bacl� �vithin anv giver_ tir�e. Cit�* Attorney seid that he has ex�r.ined the ori�inal specisl Act oz the I,egislature and tha� it saya specificall�r that this Ref'erendurn goes not by calendar years but by f3scal years, and that the fiscal year be�;ir.s J-�zly lst, and that it would be possible to hsave this election at the present t�.me if the Coruaission should try to �;o Ahead �Jith it and 3x�ediately after ne:-_t July lst have another election on this point. nIayor Broivn said one could Y�e held in April and or_e in Dece�nUer. Gor�nissioner Lynn asked thai; if' tYiis ballot rernains on the raachine a nd i� peoPle vote on it and it does not pass if it could be Urought back at another time and voted on a�;ain. Nlaz,�or Brown sa3d that it luas been �he policy of the Gor�nission to �ring things before the public and 7:et thexn be in on anythin� the Cor.u;iission does, and that the splendid tiror?t whic�� has been cione should not be lost because of the fact that the public does not ynow r•�hat it is rall about. The n�ap, he sta.ted, v�as placed on disnlay less than 10 d� 3�a�o, and tlZat that is the thing people are concerned F+ith. He said the;r catl loo�� �t it and �cnov� exactly �rrhat it means. Gitt,� Attorney atal�ed that it caes placed orx display the �orning after the enactment of th.e Ordinance approving it, the 5tti of Decer,it�ex. Cor�ti3si�ner Blanton corimented that that tiyas as earl� as it could r�!:ve Ueen placed on displsy. Cornr.iissioner Lynn said that he t2iinks the Cor�ission ia crowdin� the oaneellin� of the election too close to the date of the election. n4afor Brown co�ented that the City wi11 probably get some cr3�icisr;� fror.i iL, bu� ttiat peoplo in �tovrn knova tha�t they have the pr.ivile�e of ��ting and that thev could vote and �cill it, and that while it r.iay not suit ever•�body he �'elt that a r�an should be in a pos3.tion al�vays to change his �ind vrhen things are poinl;ed out that haven't been complied with - that that ia the usual proeedure v�hich is followed in the Qor,nttission - thAt is; let the people know �cahat they are �;ain� to vote on. ConMis3ioner Turner said that if t7is Corrsiission could knp�v ��rhat the reac�ion of the public was �oin� to be that they would know tivhich is mora �vise - to go on and hold the election or post- pone it. He said if the Cor,uaiss3on goes on with the e�ection �and the people vote it doti�n the Cor.�r.izasion coulci bring it back again, and at t�1e sarie time there is a possibilit� that they r7i11 vote it 3n; and they still v;ould correct certain little discrepancies in it, even if tlae Cor�issian v�aited .ior sors�e time to hold the election. fIe said that he ��ondered if the �eneral public vroul.d think that the Cor�nission �vas staanpeded by a rninority and would not �;ive the rest �f the voters a chance to vote on it. Iie aaid he did not �vant to have people tlrinl:in�; tlzai; he voted not to �;ive people a chance to vate on i�, that Ile v�ould w�nt them to hstve no misunderstandin� of it - that the Co�nission did not give bhern a chance to vo�e an it. He said it would take a Soloiuon to �igure out what v�as best to do. City Clerk stated that he Y�ad asked that �che voti.ng raachinea be blanked out, And tkist he riondered iP it is too laie to have theri changed. Comrlis3iauer 131anton i'elt that the rilacl�ines had been chanR ed prematurel+,�. Com;�iasioner Lynn �aid he �v�3 �rank to eay that he did no� vnov� lvhich �vaq to �%ote. Cor.�;ii3�ionor Bl�nton said that the ta�payers are �oing to reac� unfnvorably whEn tla.ey lmow it is taksxi off the ballot. Cora�iissioner Lynn co�.mented tYiat ri�;ht on the eve of election tYie Citf is in a le�;al tan�;Te and tnat the Gity Attorne5� ia �;ivinF; only his cu,rbstone opinion rather than expert advioe, as he l�as not hmcl time to t;o ir�to a11 tYie angles of it. He said that he did not see v�hn� clifferenco it makss v�k^,ether it is voted on now or late�. Cozuaissioner Tuxner said that if it is va�eti do�rn, the Counnission_ w.i].1 know }vhether the people want i� or not. Corrnnissioner Lynn said that not many people attended the meetin�; the niqht bei'ore, qnd that i� shoiild not c'han�;e the election at all. PJiayar Brotivn �tatecl that he did noi; believe the matter has been properl� bre3en�ed to tYLe people and that th�ey don't know �rh�At 3L � -3- CIYt'Y. 90I�tP.iIS;�TON b�EET2I+1G Daesmber 15, 1951 tlzey r�r� votin�; on. Commi.ssioner Blanton t�hen askad v+li+J the Urdinqnces h�d been p�s�ed b� unanimous vote ii bhis vrere the case. r�ayor £3rown stated tYiat four men disa�;reed as i:o whether there rvas aufficien{; tiri�, tliat i� had been diecuased for an hour or two. He said tha� he did noti brin� this matter up, that I��Ir. Lynn had brou�;ht it up And initieted d3.scu�sion r ep;ardin� takinb it off the ballot. Commissioner I,ynn sAid tha{; he did not recall initia�ing �t, �that he had w�nted to discuss it for his olen kno�aled�e. Tie atated tY�at rlr. �'aul Randolph began the discu�,�3,on. Mr�yor BY�own aaid tlzat he had mearst that the Coxmnis�ion had initi�ted the discussi�n, but that that is not the important el�rilant of tha ru�ttar. Gomrnissioner Turner said that it seemed awkward to him, since the Cor,¢nission v�ted to put itens on the map a certain way and then when the public coLnes in and wants it chan�;ed, that the Cor,unisaion is put in an unpleAsant position. bi�,ypr Brow7n stated �hat the Cor�nission feel� that the Country C1ub ahould be R-1 in3tead of R-2, And that it is agking �he public to vote on sornethin� that is ti7ronga Cornmissioner Blanton s aid tliat he called up n'Ir, . I3� skin bepause he knetin he lived �.n that area and tivould kno+�, and asked v�Yiether it was R-1 or R-2, and thNt R1r. Baskin told him that i� had never been voted R-2 - it t�as R-l. Ae said t�at he discuss�d the lotver end o�'�he Beach and invr�ted him down to the En�ineerTs �f.fice to �o over some of the zonixig, which h:e did, GZd �hat down in the Enginaer's OFfice the zaning law v�as discussed and zoi7ing on tlze Beach, and that at that t�ae he had poin�ed out �o him the zoning of R-2 in the Country Club area on lihe rnap, anc� that that �vas the way it was �ain�; on, and that he had asked for no changes on it at that tine. h4ayer Brown comrnented that tlze rnap was not cornplete. Citv �;ttorne� ��ated t7iat it �vent on display the rnornin�; f'ollo���ing the Coz�iission r.ieetin�s at crhich the Ordinances �g�ere pa3sed, and it ��as published the ne:ct day, He �aid it aras at the Engineer's Office complete the night before. Comruissioner Turner asY,ed b.o�v it could have been properly drativn until aiter it tivas deFinitel� voted on - that it wou7.cl have been premature to clraw the map alzead and then have some section char�ed. City Attorney said that tne proper time for changes to be r.�ade tians prior to �he time the natter was subraitted to the City CoL�rais�ion ior the purpose of passing the Ordinance. He said that the ti.me passabe bettiveen the passing oi the Ordinance anc the holding of nn election vras a nnrr,ial tir:ie. He saic� that i� the Ci-ty Govern- ment tivished to change any part of it that it sliould have been done in the period expiring prior to the su�ts:on of the r:zatter in its final forrr. beiore the Ordinance rvas adopted. I�tayor Brotivn said tha•t he @id not believe that the puUlic had been sufiiciently informed, that he wasn't reflecb3n� on the trork itself, that onl� one or twwo little changes sr.ould be made. He said that the time eleraent is �nvol.ved. He said if the Co�issianera •rrant to have people vote on it no�v that �he�r should make a raotion to that ei'fect, and if tne Corrunissioners c�ant to vote to have the map amended through the tivishes o�' the peopla a motion should be raade to pass Ordinance No. 616. Commisr�ioner Turner said that if �he Cor,¢�aission had �;one aheaci �v?th their ideas and had the riap prepare,d prior to the Ordinance and had i-G on display and available for everyone ico see it then �ahen the Ordinance was passed tk�e Cormiission could have said that the �aap had been su�ficiently on displa�. 2,Iayor Brown aai.d that he felt tYiat the vote c�ould probably corie ta a successz"`ul conclusion, as far as that ���as concerned. City Attorney said that it happens that this special election is set up �vitki the general election - that altira'�s the gensrrzl eleeti�n gets out a consider�aUle vote, and'�that rvhen you have a speci�l election on a zonin�; quesi:ion �lone the history in r.zost to�vns is that the vote is very sr�allo Therefore, there vaoulc be a r:uch larger rnunY�er of peopla votin�; on ihis i2 it vaere put on tbe ballot alon�; ��ith the general e7.ect_on. Ae said that there is a lot more cizai�ce th�t the Ordinance rvould prass in the zace of opposition submitted alon�; wi�h the �eneral elec�ion thati it vrould 3n tlie face of opposition i�.en t�ere uras not a�;eneral e�er,tion and a srnall nur�ber oi opposin� peoPle could defeat it. There i�ein�; no further busine3s to cor,ie hefore the Cor.uaission, ;he �iaeting wa s ad j ourned b� I��ayor Brot�n at 1: UU Pni. A1^TEST: , ,* Gity udi�Gor a Clerk r ` -� _ • � �, f �-�. Iagor-Coranission_ r,/ �